Bargain WPC Speaker Upgrade £10 a pair for dual driver Sony xs-gt1328f

[PeteB]

Because sometimes you cant get enough oomph out of a standard size speaker...

You can if you buy the right brand/model/spec. Putting a bigger sized cone in won't make much if any differece.

Try something like this instead: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rockford-...nch-Bass-Sub-Subwoofer-20cm-NEW-/351192568137

That'll put out more low end than any 10/12" crap brand (sony, pioneer, alpine, jvc, bose) subwoofer. If you hook it up to a better amp then I'd suggest screwing your pin to the floor

 

[Paul]

PeteB,

These are rather large 10" Pioneers that were out of a "bass bin" that i bought just for the job - it cost me £20, so £10 per speaker is cheap

Oh trust me i know a LOT about speakers and what you can get out of them from my kiddie days

 

[PeteB]

PeteB,

These are rather large 10" Pioneers that were out of a "bass bin" that i bought just for the job - it cost me £20, so £10 per speaker is cheap

110% convinced me they are likely terrible then. But better than stock upgrade. It's just the hassle of converting the size.

Was a sound engineer for 12 years by the way. Haha!

 

[Nedreud]

Was a sound engineer for 12 years by the way. Haha!

Uh-oh! We got a pro in da house!

And I used to work in Maplin and probably sold more 15" woofers than you've had hot dinners! (I'm just being silly)

I do like the look of those Rockford Fosgate subs. As they'd be mounted internally, not externally, we won't be needing that pretty plastic fascia trim. Do you know once it's been removed if the foam suspension protrudes beyond the mounting rim? Price-wise though they are bordering on creeping up to Pinball Pro / Flipper Fidelity levels. I don't doubt their credentials or your recommendation, but we're talking about pinball machines, not audiophile hi-fi. The cabinet isn't exactly a tuned bass bin and the ambient noise from all the solenoids, thwacking and smacking isn't exactly ideal for maximum fidelity

I'm pretty sure all of these speakers will be a noticeable improvement over the original equipment. All my old Bally's (1978-83) have a single mono 6" full-range speaker (all-paper cone and suspension construction) at the far end of the floor in the cabinet driven by a shoddy TDA2002 in the most basic test application configuration. It's hard to get much worse!

 

[DRD]

Just putting a single 6" twin driver speaker in your old bally should make a significant difference. And save a tonne of hassle and work. I was considering doing this with my vector

But I will be intrigued to hear how you get on with mounting the little speakers in the vent grill. As an aside, the sound you get out of an old Bally SS will always be mono. So surely you just put a single little speaker in the middle of the vent grill ? Or were you going to use two little speakers with a crossover ? - if so this will cause the current issue whereby what comes out of left and right is different ??

 

[PeteB]

Uh-oh! We got a pro in da house!

And I used to work in Maplin and probably sold more 15" woofers than you've had hot dinners! (I'm just being silly)

I do like the look of those Rockford Fosgate subs. As they'd be mounted internally, not externally, we won't be needing that pretty plastic fascia trim. Do you know once it's been removed if the foam suspension protrudes beyond the mounting rim? Price-wise though they are bordering on creeping up to Pinball Pro / Flipper Fidelity levels. I don't doubt their credentials or your recommendation, but we're talking about pinball machines, not audiophile hi-fi. The cabinet isn't exactly a tuned bass bin and the ambient noise from all the solenoids, thwacking and smacking isn't exactly ideal for maximum fidelity

I'm pretty sure all of these speakers will be a noticeable improvement over the original equipment. All my old Bally's (1978-83) have a single mono 6" full-range speaker (all-paper cone and suspension construction) at the far end of the floor in the cabinet driven by a shoddy TDA2002 in the most basic test application configuration. It's hard to get much worse!

It looks like the suspension does indeed protrude beyond the mount. The ones I've used in the past (and one currently sitting in my Rollergames) must be an older or different model. However, what I would probably do here is either leave the fascia on and stick some weather seal tape around it, or remove the mesh over the cabinet hole. The sub should slot in and you can either throw away the mesh or staple it to the outside of the cab.

Sure, you are right that RF gear is wayyyyy overkill for a pinball but points I was making were a) pinball pro is crap and for the same money you can put together high end audiophile kit, and b) a good quality 8" sub can put out equal or more power than a poor one with a larger cone. No point hacking up cabinets when you can just use the right size.

RF's 5.25 coaxial speakers are very nice too by the way. But again you'd be looking at £50-£60 for the cheapest ones. Those Sony speakers in the first post for £10 are more than good enough to make a big difference. Heck, even if you sellotape some cardboard to a magnet it would sound better than what Bally/Williams were using.

Gonna go with an all Rockford Fosgate set up in my Revenge From Mars.

 

[Nedreud]

a) pinball pro is crap and for the same money you can put together high end audiophile kit

Is the PP stuff that bad? On first glance it doesn't look like much more than some standard speaker with pretty labels.

Heck, even if you sellotape some cardboard to a magnet it would sound better than what Bally/Williams were using.

Can't argue with that!

 

[replicas]

Are you on commission from Rockford Fosgate ?

 

[DRD]

I do not think the PP is that bad. In my opinion, it is just overpriced. You pay a few premia that collectively make them rather expensive

1. It is imported from the US, with all the taxes, travel .......
2. It is designed to be plug and play
3. It includes two spacers that mean you can use your original pinball bolts to mount the speakers without any carpentry required

There will be loads of relatively wealthy pinball owners out there who are terrified about taking the backglass off, who would never dream of using a soldering iron on a solenoid let alone a board ........ If you are in this camp, PP makes some sense

But if you are happy using a soldering iron, unplugging a few things, buying a crossover on eBay, cutting a hole in mdf and relocating some captive nuts .... you can save a load of money with DIY

 

[replicas]

Be interested to know what a full set of Rockford Fosgate set us back and more importantly what they sound like.

 

[PeteB]

Is the PP stuff that bad? On first glance it doesn't look like much more than some standard speaker with pretty labels.

I'm not wanting to spread any rumours here but the one's I've seen didn't have any speaker manufacturer branding on them. That's an immediate red flag for me. For all we know they could be cheap chinese speakers with, as you say, pretty labels stuck on them.

I'm just not willing to entertain the price of them when I know I could buy high end gear for the same amount.

Be interested to know what a full set of Rockford Fosgate set us back and more importantly what they sound like.

8" Sub - £55
5.25" Coaxials - £50
4ohm Low Pass Filter - £15

£120. Optional L-Pad attenuator for about £15. Would use that to trim down the head speakers if you want more bass by turning up the main volume. So £135 ish.

 

[Wiredworm]

Delivery on those Sony speakers was pretty sharpish - turned up today. Will stick them in the cupboard ready for when the pinball is back together - want to fire it up with the regular speakers in place first so I can get before and after opinions.

 

[Paul]

I'm not wanting to spread any rumours here but the one's I've seen didn't have any speaker manufacturer branding on them. That's an immediate red flag for me. For all we know they could be cheap chinese speakers with, as you say, pretty labels stuck on them.

I'm just not willing to entertain the price of them when I know I could buy high end gear for the same amount.

8" Sub - £55
5.25" Coaxials - £50
4ohm Low Pass Filter - £15

£120. Optional L-Pad attenuator for about £15. Would use that to trim down the head speakers if you want more bass by turning up the main volume. So £135 ish.

Lol - there's the difference tho - Almost the price of the PP speakers, and they are a custom solution.... OK may sound the dogs, however as someone said we're talking pinball machines and TDA2002's, not Mission amps

I dont think any of the upgrades i did cost more than £50, and the sound quality improved 100%

I could connect my Monitor sub up Via an Amp, however that might be overkill lol

 

[PeteB]

I could connect my Monitor sub up Via an Amp, however that might be overkill lol

Get it done!

 

[Nedreud]

Yeah I had a crazy idea to install a jack socket that when connected cut the sound from the internal amp so I could feed it into my Arcam Alpha 5 and Mission floor standers More than enough hi-fi oomph to shake my pin shack!

 

[Jumbosinbad360]

So could I install one of those Rockford Forsgate sub in a CV?

 

[replicas]

Right that's how much it costs (a lot) now what do you get for your money ? Let's listen to what it sounds like. Can we get a machine to a show to demo how good it is.
I thought the whole point of this was to put a good quality set of speakers into a pinball for a budget price.

 

[lukewells]

Sound is only as good as the weakest part of the system.

There is no point in putting Rockford Fosgate speakers in a pinball machine, which has unclean power, a low cost amp and a lossy sound board

Almost any speaker upgrade makes a Williams pinball sound better, because the standard speakers are absolute junk.

I've done my IJ with a pair of Sony speakers similar to the ones in this thread (£29.99) and an 8inch low cost sub (£20) and the IJ sounds 10 times better than factory. (also no L-Pad installed at present as the speakers used were surprisingly balanced)

Spending an extra £100 on Rockford Fosgate or Pinball Pro stuff won't sound £100 better, without you installing a separate clean power supply, an upgraded and stabilised clock circuit, re-capping the sound board, and adding an external higher quality amp

 

[DRD]

I personally would never plug a pinball's sound into a quality hi if anyway. As lukewells highlights, you would be feeding a really crappy signal into expensive kit. Setting aside the fact that the weakest link rule will apply, what about the risk ?

All the power spikes with pinballs. Risk of shorts. Components blowing mid game. The loud thud through the speakers on power up and power down. I suspect there would be a risk of damage to your decent hifi. It is one thing blowing a £10 pair of Sony car speakers. Blowing hi if speakers that cost hundreds, is quite another

Might I ask, which 8 inch sub did you use please ? And did you widen the cabinet hole or just leave alone ?

 

[Paul]

The last one i used was an alpine 8". To be fair, virtually anything with a decent sensitivity should be fine - the better the sensitivity, the less you have to drive it to make the sound (i'm sure i'll be corrected if thats wrong!)...

 

[PeteB]

Pretty much so, Paul. And as long as they're 4ohm which I think most pins use.

Right that's how much it costs (a lot) now what do you get for your money ? Let's listen to what it sounds like. Can we get a machine to a show to demo how good it is.
I thought the whole point of this was to put a good quality set of speakers into a pinball for a budget price.

Well if I've still got my Revenge From Mars by the time NERG comes around I'd be happy to take it along. Also have still got some high quality studio mic's lying around so might use them when doing a video. Problem there is the viewer needs a decent system to watch it back, or some good quality cans.

Generally speaking though @lukewells is right about the poop quality soundboard and amps. I did it on my Rollergames just because I'm anal. RFM and the modern Stern's might see the benifit though. Remains to be seen... or heard rather.

 

[Nedreud]

I've got three generations of sound module in my Bally's: AS-2518-50 in PARAGON, AS-2518-51 in GOLD BALL and AS-2518-61 in VECTOR. All generate mono sound and have an on-board amplifier based around the very out-dated and fairly low-spec TDA2002.

The sound on the -51 in GOLD BALL is totally generated by a digital 3-voice chip, the General Instruments AY-3-8910. This is a classic computer games sound chip from the 80s and was used on many arcade video games and home PCs of the time, making all those classic "chip choons". I've got a stack of these which I can program using an Arduino. The audio output quality is excellent and sounds great pumped through my hi-fi!

But @lukewells and @DRD are right to caution making a direct electrical connection between the nasty electrical environment of a pinball machine and an expensive hi-fi. There are ways around that though.

As the AS-2518-51 sound module is currently dead in my GOLD BALL it's definitely going to get the full upgrade treatment! All new everything, caps, and the better TDA2003A amplifier because I discovered that not only was the 6808 CPU chuffed but the TDA2002 is also toast too.

 

[Paul]

Just for reference in case anyone hasn't seen it...

http://www.dziedzic.us/wpc_speaker_selection.html

 

[PeteB]

Oh my, look further down on that page and you find this:

Suggested 6-1/2 inch models
4 ohm: Dayton DC160S-4 (~$20 at Parts Express); Rockford-Fosgate RFP3406, RFP4406

8 ohm: Dayton DC160-8 (~$18 at Parts Express); Peerless 833599 ($40 at Parts Express); Rockford-Fosgate RFP3806, RFP4806

Suggested 8 inch models
4 ohm: Dayton Quatro (~$50 at Parts Express); Rockford-Fosgate RFP3408, RFP4408
8 ohm: Pioneer B20GR30-51F (~$35 at Parts Express); Peerless 850136 CSX (~$50 at Parts Express); AudioBahn AW831, Rockford-Fosgate RFP3808, RFP4808

 

[PeteB]

So my Sony speakers from this thread came today. I'm gonna give these things a chance, don't won't people thinking I'm obsessed with RF!

Anybody got recomendations for a nice Sony subwoofer to go with these? Would like to keep them matched.

 

[Andypuk]

Has anyone put these Sony speakers in their machines yet? Anyone got any tips when fitting? Everyone use the existing speaker wires?

 

[Nedreud]

Anybody got recomendations for a nice Sony subwoofer to go with these? Would like to keep them matched.

Sony only seem to do their XPLOD subwoofers in 10" and 12" sizes: http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/car-speakers-amplifiers/t/car-subwoofers

 

[PeteB]

Urgh...

 

[Nedreud]

Urgh...

Couldn't have said it any better myself. With branding such as "XPLOD" and a silly pentagonal cone I suspect they look better than they sound and most are destined for a life in the boot of a Vauxhall Corsa owner by bloke called Gazza.

 

[Nedreud]

Urgh...

Couldn't have said it any better myself. With branding such as "XPLOD" and a silly pentagonal cone I suspect they look better than they sound and most are destined for a life in the boot of a Vauxhall Corsa owner by bloke called Gazza.