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Bally Paragon

AlanJ said:
If you can get a lamp working by wiggling it in its socket then probably a dodgy lamp holder. you can sometimes clean these up to fix them, or just replace with new.

It looked like some of the lamps in the backbox were on when they should have been off - they seemed to brighten when on- probably a duff scr on the lamp board.

Similarly any lamps that don’t work at all are either scr blown or:
The connectors to the boards :where you can get poor connections. replacing the header pins on the board and re-crimping the wire connectors is the solution there.
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Hi Alan,
I just watched the video back briefly of lamp test and there’s a bulb stuck on where the spinner target is.
Would sorting these issues help getting the score board working again ?
 
The bottom lamp by the spinner is supposed to be on all the time. it’s not a controlled lamp.

your score displays all out could be a connector issue, or could be an issue in the high voltage section of the solenoid driver board. Did you test the fuse in that board?
The board has a couple of test points to check the high voltage in and out. but be careful because it is 200v dc! pinwiki guide is a good reference to follow to diagnose issues.
 
do the displays have an orange glow,but not display digits?,I had that once before and it was a connector issue,causing it
 
stevebm1 said:
do the displays have an orange glow,but not display digits?,I had that once before and it was a connector issue,causing it
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Hi Steve, no they don’t look like they glow.
However when cutting power to the machine they do flicker very briefly? Which is weird
 
AlanJ said:
The bottom lamp by the spinner is supposed to be on all the time. it’s not a controlled lamp.

your score displays all out could be a connector issue, or could be an issue in the high voltage section of the solenoid driver board. Did you test the fuse in that board?
The board has a couple of test points to check the high voltage in and out. but be careful because it is 200v dc! pinwiki guide is a good reference to follow to diagnose issues.
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Hi Alan,
Yes I tested the single fuse on the centre of the board and was fine.
 
It looks like the displays are getting high voltage, i could see the orange glow, having looked at the video again. so….try removing and reconnecting the top left connector on the mpu board - that’s the one that puts out the score data info from the mpu board to the score displays.
 
AlanJ said:
It looks like the displays are getting high voltage, i could see the orange glow, having looked at the video again. so….try removing and reconnecting the top left connector on the mpu board - that’s the one that puts out the score data info from the mpu board to the score displays.
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Good morning Alan,
Thankyou for that I’ll will give it a go after work 👍🏻
Might be worth lamp testing in dark to see better too?
 
On your power supply board /one with all fuses on in your pic bottom left connecter I see a pin showing on right ,is that correct or is connecter a pin over to left?
 
Dotteddown said:
One thing I did forget to mention though witch is odd when I switch off machine under the table the score boards do flicker for about a tenth of a second ! Very weird
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The displays show random segments as the power goes off? I'd wonder if they're not being written to, or the decoder chip on each display isn't powered (from the 5v supply, rather than the high voltage)
 
Jay Walker said:
The displays show random segments as the power goes off? I'd wonder if they're not being written to, or the decoder chip on each display isn't powered (from the 5v supply, rather than the high voltage)
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It’s not random segments it’s like the whole thing lights up for a thousandth of a second I’ll try and catch it on video
 
Pudsey pinball said:
On your power supply board /one with all fuses on in your pic bottom left connecter I see a pin showing on right ,is that correct or is connecter a pin over to left?
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oh don’t see this at first but now I can, that’s how it’s been on since i got the machine no plugs on there have ever been taken off ?
But does look odd ?
 
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Dotteddown said:
Just tired a video on boot up with play field covered with blanket and lights out.
You can see when the game starts a few numbers on the score cards light up
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Jay Walker said:
The displays show random segments as the power goes off? I'd wonder if they're not being written to, or the decoder chip on each display isn't powered (from the 5v supply, rather than the high voltage)
Click to expand...
Just put a few vids up of this and there’s definitely orange glow to the scorecards ?
Not sure where to go from here I’ve checked all I can
 
AlanJ said:
It looks like the displays are getting high voltage, i could see the orange glow, having looked at the video again. so….try removing and reconnecting the top left connector on the mpu board - that’s the one that puts out the score data info from the mpu board to the score displays.
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Just a thought it has just had a new alltec mpu board fitted before I got it but was all fine with new board for a while.
 
I have just had some weird light issues with my Fathom, but it highlights a possible cause.

One controlled light was out. The bulb was fine. So I reseated the connector. No joy.

So I identified the problem pin using the manual, reflowed solder. Sorted.

For about 5 minutes. Then the controlled lights on the board went nuts. The game played fine, but the lights were almost random. The extra ball light even came on despite the function being removed. One rollover would light two. You moved it with the flipper button and some random multiball light came on.

With the lights and game running I identified the second problem connector by putting a bit of lateral pressure on it.

By removing the board to repair one cold solder joint .... I had created at least one other bad joint on another connector. So I reflowed all the pins on the board. I cleaned every pin on the board with 1200 grit. This combo has cured it.

Moral - maybe your board has one or more bad soldered pins. It is 45 years old and just replacing a connector can break a joint on these old girls
 
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DRD said:
I have just had some weird light issues with my Fathom, but it highlights a possible cause.

One controlled light was out. The bulb was fine. So I reseated the connector. No joy.

So I identified the problem pin using the manual, reflowed solder. Sorted.

For about 5 minutes. Then the controlled lights on the board went nuts. The game played fine, but the lights were almost random. The extra ball light even came on despite the function being removed. One rollover would light two. You moved it with the flipper button and some random multiball light came on.

With the lights and game running I identified the second problem connector by putting a bit of lateral pressure on it.

By removing the board to repair one cold solder joint .... I had created at least one other bad joint on another connector. So I reflowed all the pins on the board. I cleaned every pin on the board with 1200 grit. This combo has cured it.

Moral - maybe your board has one or more bad soldered pins. It is 45 years old and just replacing a connector can break a joint on these old girls
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Hi DRD,
Yes this is a possibility, I just wish I knew which board was causing the issue.
It’s got a new mpu board so it could be a problem on the lamp board or the rectifier board possibly?
Sound board is fine.
I’ve just been reading through the manual as it happens about rectifier boards, the one on my machine is the better one of the two and was used on space raiders and more.
However a few of the fuse holders do look old and have a black look to them and are very stiff and the fuses are quite difficult to get out.
The pins on the rectifier board look in poor condition too when you look close.
Some of the solder joints look poor too and look like rust on them?
I have found a replacement board for this on line but it’s expensive and I’m not 100% sure it will cure the issue.
I may just take a closer look tomorrow and the rectifier board and if it looks like I could take out and re solder some cold joints I will as I’ve nothing to loose.
 

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I am no expert so can't claim to know the "right" way.

I don't know what your soldering skills are like. I have found that you need a really fine soldering iron tip for the skinny pins used on these games. The soldering seems less robust than on later System 11 and WPC games.

I love these early SS Ballys but some examples are riddled with connector issues. You just get some that are nice and clean. Others are full of soldered repairs and new connectors.

When you look at tnt repair videos online they reflow all soldered joints, recap every liquid filled capacitor. You can also proactively replace every connector block. But all these are huge tasks with real risk of collateral damage.

A nice option for you would be to board swap, where you exchange boards for known working ones.

Or consider taking it to Andy Netherwood at Pinball Mania as he is reasonably local.

The league is at my place on Sun 15 May. If you bring your Paragon we could try some board swaps afterwards to try to locate the problem.

Just moving the game represents a risk.

I'd suggest you get @ronsplooter over. He knows his onions, has had plenty of this era game, and used to own the Paragon I currently have.
 
I would love to do this if I can’t get it sorted myself by then, Alan and Chris have both offered to help and I’m very grateful.
At this stage I think it might be a good idea to get up to Alan when I can as he has a known working board he kindly said I could swap or test mine.
At least i will then know that’s another thing eliminated, your right though about the amount of things wrong with these old girls.
The more you look the worse they get 🤣🤣
Where abouts is pinball mania I’ve just googled snd all I find was American sites.
I won’t give up on it though I can’t as I miss playing it really bad already !! It’s just not the same fun without the scores
 
Keep the faith. Once you get them going, they are reliable. They were designed to play thousands of games a year - in home use it is a tiny fraction of this.

From a known working position you can isolate things and focus in on the most likely problem.

The issue is when you get a new game and you are not sure where the bodies are buried.

I have needed to replace some connectors on my Centaur for years. About once in every five attempts it will fail to boot up. I know where the issue is and am about to bite the bullet as my Fathom niggles have got me back in the zone.
 
Yes I know what you mean, I’m getting to know this machine pretty well already 🤣It’s my first pin only had it just over a month and had a new mpu fitted before it got sent out to try to avoid this but hey ho just unlucky I guess.
It’s not end of the world and definitely fixable so I’ll just keep trying.
Thanks for the reply’s 👍🏻
 
We can swap lamp driver boards by post. but no point just yet until we get the score displays fixed.

It’s most likely connectors/headers, no 5v to the score display boards, (i would then say mpu board issue but if it’s got a new one, reduces the possibility), duff score display unit, broken or shorted wiring.

one duff score display can bring the whole lot down. unplug all but the player 1. if it works add in others one by one. if it doesn’t unplug it and plug in the player 2 unit.
 
AlanJ said:
We can swap lamp driver boards by post. but no point just yet until we get the score displays fixed.

It’s most likely connectors/headers, no 5v to the score display boards, (i would then say mpu board issue but if it’s got a new one, reduces the possibility), duff score display unit, broken or shorted wiring.

one duff score display can bring the whole lot down. unplug all but the player 1. if it works add in others one by one. if it doesn’t unplug it and plug in the player 2 unit.
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Hi Alan,
Yes your right I did read on Facebook about one dodgy score board will bring the lot down.
I unplugged them all and tried them all one at a time turning on off while doing so but got nothing.
I will repeat this though to rule out 100% mate
 
Ok the score displays need 3 things.
high voltage for the gas displays
5v for the logic / driver circuit
correct logic signals from the mpu

you can check the first two are getting to the display boards with a DMM

the last one can be checked with logic probe.
 
I’m hoping I may of found the problem!
After buying a multi meter and reading up how to use it and help from Brian who o bought the pin from we managed to narrow it down to the solenoid board TP2 only getting low readings around 3 to 6v.
Also TP 1&2 on displays were 5v which is wrong.
Got a new re con solenoid driver board on the way to put in the pin and fingers crossed 🤞 it will sort it.
 

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