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Anyone able to help new EM owner near Telford?

Ashbo

Ashbo

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Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
1,809
Location
Lincolnshire
Alias
Ash
Hiya all

The new owner of my Bally Minizag is having a horrible time. It left me working nicely, but following transport and re-setup it blew a fuse on the 50v line shortly after. Experience tells me this is coil locked on, probably because a switch is stuck in that shouldn't be, coil draws too much current and then fuse goes pop.

I have sent some new fuses and tried to help remotely, however the machine now powers on but is stuck on permanent credit drain.

Theory here is, new fuse goes pop again straight away, stuck thing still stuck, but if no fuse blow then then whatever drew too much current is no longer doing so. This is where we are .....

Something is not right, my theory is ball count stuck at last ball, start latch/ trip or game over relay/ trip, however talking a new owner through this is tough and I'd hate for a simple logical fix now to get more complicated through prodding the wrong things.

It was playing nicely bar the match unit which is out of the equation as it's not connected.

I'm three hours away, minimum, so wondering if there anyone in the Telford area that may be able to offer assistance to this new, and very disappointed owner?

Thanks in advance
Ash
 
Is the new owner on here and did they pick it up themselves?
 
I don't think you're responsible for how it arrives to be honest. But if they post their issues on here i am sure someone can help them out.
 
I guess head was removed, so easy stuff to check is that the Jones plus are all in correctly. reseating may help.

If no one nearby, ask them to signup here and post some pics
 
AlanJ said:
I guess head was removed, so easy stuff to check is that the Jones plus are all in correctly. reseating may help.

If no one nearby, ask them to signup here and post some pics
Click to expand...
Head removed for transit (tick), once I'm out of work I'll get in touch. Thanks all.
 

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From my limited experience with owning EMs .
They need to be played often to keep running smoothly.
And if you so much as whisper about moving it, let alone dare drag it across a room or god forbid remove the head ….. then it will throw a wobbly just to teach you a lesson and you are going to be swearing and looking at schematics for the next 6 months 😂
 
I am the new owner of this machine. I just cannot get it to play. Credits click up then immediately down and just carried on clicking then lights go off.
 
Game isn’t resetting correctly. it’s like the start relay is staying engaged and clocking down a 2nd , 3rd, 4th credit etc.

have a good look a the start relay. each relay is a coil that when energised pulls in and moves a set of switches. the switches are held in place in a plastic frame. with the power off try moving the relay by hand . do the switches open/close ok. sometimes in transit they can get knocked out of their frame. also make sure no loose pieces of wire or old coins or other debris has got in the way.

the start relay may actually be 2 coils where it can latch on and then be disengaged by the other relay.


visually check other relays for similar issues.
 
AlanJ said:
Game isn’t resetting correctly. it’s like the start relay is staying engaged and clocking down a 2nd , 3rd, 4th credit etc.

have a good look a the start relay. each relay is a coil that when energised pulls in and moves a set of switches. the switches are held in place in a plastic frame. with the power off try moving the relay by hand . do the switches open/close ok. sometimes in transit they can get knocked out of their frame. also make sure no loose pieces of wire or old coins or other debris has got in the way.

the start relay may actually be 2 coils where it can latch on and then be disengaged by the other relay.


visually check other relays for similar issues.
Click to expand...
IMG_20221120_093515741.jpg
Old photo, but to highlight the parts Alan is describing...

IMG_20221120_093514203~2.jpg
 
so start relay is two coils. it should click in, then the score motor turns, the reset relay should click in and this should release the start relay, something is not happening. look for any wires off too.

so check to see that the start relay is engaging. i think it is.

then watch the reset relay does that click in?

the ball count also needs to reset
 
IMG_20220403_102629809~2.jpg
Reset relay close up. Top switch has an additional new blade which was added as a new contact. The two darker colored ones need to be touching normally, but when the relay is on, they will be pulled apart.
IMG_20230801_095608571.jpg
 
Last edited:
I think the first question needs to be:

"What has been done so far since the arrival of the pin?"

Like everything no matter how small..
 
The start relay (trip) is staying on, it should be switching off by the start relay (latch) being engaged - this should engage quite quickly (within 1 revolution of the score motor)., otherwise the start relay switches remain closed too long and another cycle of the score motor clocks down an 2nd credit, 3rd credit etc. this is the symptom we are seeing.

1. Make sure the start relay switches are closing and opening when you engage the switch carefully by hand?
2. Check that the start relay (trip) is engaging (which it must be to get the problem we have), but then check the start relay (latch) is switching the start relay switches off again quite quickly.
3. if the start relay (latch) isnt engaging, then check the switches that controls this - Switch 7B on the score motor, plus either Anti cheat relay switch OR both Ball count relay (ball count at zero) and a switch on the start relay itself.
I would suspect the 7B score motor switch as one of the other 2 will most likely be closed.
 
I don't know any EM person nearby I'm afraid. If it can be brought to me in Huddersfield I'll do it but I'm away until the 18th

I feel we are overthinking this. If it was working when it left, there should be very little wrong with it now
My top 3 checks here would be
1. All Jones plugs correctly inserted
2.Coin switch on door not permanently closed ( that is very much what the current problem looks like)
3.Wiring loom not resting on a relay - especially the coin relay (I see this surprisingly often - does the fault persist if you lift the playfield?)

After that I'd be looking for a relay that had got shaken out of place in transit, and beyond that a "solder bomb" that had dropped in to a relay in transit
 
Ashbo said:
Hiya all

The new owner of my Bally Minizag is having a horrible time. It left me working nicely, but following transport and re-setup it blew a fuse on the 50v line shortly after. Experience tells me this is coil locked on, probably because a switch is stuck in that shouldn't be, coil draws too much current and then fuse goes pop.

I have sent some new fuses and tried to help remotely, however the machine now powers on but is stuck on permanent credit drain.

Theory here is, new fuse goes pop again straight away, stuck thing still stuck, but if no fuse blow then then whatever drew too much current is no longer doing so. This is where we are .....

Something is not right, my theory is ball count stuck at last ball, start latch/ trip or game over relay/ trip, however talking a new owner through this is tough and I'd hate for a simple logical fix now to get more complicated through prodding the wrong things.

It was playing nicely bar the match unit which is out of the equation as it's not connected.

I'm three hours away, minimum, so wondering if there anyone in the Telford area that may be able to offer assistance to this new, and very disappointed owner?

Thanks in advance
Ash
Click to expand...
From the info the buyer has given me it seems you told her to add credits by flicking the coin hair trigger on the door. I think in doing so she has permanently closed the coin switch. I've suggested to her she look at that.

Really in selling an EM to a total newbie you should have modded it to free play. My preferred method is to jumper across the switch on the credit unit which opens at zero, so the game then thinks there are always credits on the reel even when it shows zero
 
DAD said:
From the info the buyer has given me it seems you told her to add credits by flicking the coin hair trigger on the door. I think in doing so she has permanently closed the coin switch. I've suggested to her she look at that.

Really in selling an EM to a total newbie you should have modded it to free play. My preferred method is to jumper across the switch on the credit unit which opens at zero, so the game then thinks there are always credits on the reel even when it shows zero
Click to expand...
Thanks @DAD - we were not aware she was a newbie. It did not come up in original discussions. Thanks if you can help that would be great. We had offered to take the machine back, and this was declined.
 
AlanJ said:
Game isn’t resetting correctly. it’s like the start relay is staying engaged and clocking down a 2nd , 3rd, 4th credit etc.

have a good look a the start relay. each relay is a coil that when energised pulls in and moves a set of switches. the switches are held in place in a plastic frame. with the power off try moving the relay by hand . do the switches open/close ok. sometimes in transit they can get knocked out of their frame. also make sure no loose pieces of wire or old coins or other debris has got in the way.

the start relay may actually be 2 coils where it can latch on and then be disengaged by the other relay.


visually check other relays for similar issues.
Click to expand...
How to I move them and check them by hand?
 
Ate these videos showing anything?
Ashbo said:
Thanks @DAD - we were not aware she was a newbie. It did not come up in original discussions. Thanks if you can help that would be great. We had offered to take the machine back, and this was declined.
Click to expand...
I am a complete newbie bought this as a gift for hubby. Would not have done if I knew you needed to be an expert just to play it!

Return was not declined I just want to see if it can be fixed as told it would be simple.
 

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Abouldgriffiths said:
Ate these videos showing anything?

I am a complete newbie bought this as a gift for hubby. Would not have done if I knew you needed to be an expert just to play it!

Return was not declined I just want to see if it can be fixed as told it would be simple.
Click to expand...
That is completely different to previous videos. That's not how a score motor should be turning. Something is now stuck or locked on. I am really concerned as this was not showing on your earlier videos. Im worried that this is becoming a major fault which potentially could be dangerous. I would suggest turning the machine off immediately. I will message you privately
 
Abouldgriffiths said:
I am a complete newbie bought this as a gift for hubby. Would not have done if I knew you needed to be an expert just to play it!
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear this - I played this exact machine previously at Ash's place and it was fine so I'm convinced that it shouldn't take much to get it going again. Probably just one bad connection or something. Keep in mind that's it's a machine which was built in 1968 i.e. 55 years ago !
 
I am 98% confident that the underlying problem here is with one of the coin switches on the door.. Having seen a photo I think these are microswitches, and by using them to add credits I believe the lady has either bent a switch or, more likely, caused the end of it to come out of the cut out arc through which it should move freely and get caught in the "down" position. This will cause the exact behaviour that was occurring originally and something I've seen many times before.

The problem now is that having been left continually trying to reset this appears to have stressed other components.

It is difficult to know how badly the game is affected, but there is no point in trying to fix anything else until the underlying problem is resolved as anything else will only recur.

It's confusing having threads in different places trying to help. I suggested on the Facebook group that she examine the microswitches to see if they appeared closed. And if that didn't resolve the reset problem , to cut one wire to each switch. However I note that she has now been told to leave the game switched off. I've asked her to send me close up photos of the microswitches.

I'm up mountains in Switzerland at the moment so can't do more to help, but if the game can be got to me when I get back I'll look at it and assess what needs to be done to get it working again
 
DAD said:
I suggested on the Facebook group that she examine the microswitches to see if they appeared closed. And if that didn't resolve the reset problem , to cut one wire to each switch.
Click to expand...

Or maybe unplug the door itself, if it has its own jones plug. Though the start button is also on the door, isn't it? And a normally-closed slam switch wouldn't like that, either.
 
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