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Aerobatics start up problem

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Superleggo

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Oct 8, 2018
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Hi I Am new to the pinball world an have acquired an Aerobatics machine Which I and trying to get running. I had most of it working except a pop bumper and it played fine. However it has now developed a fault on start up. When I turn it on the score motor moves to the rest position and seems fine. However when I push the start button it resets the score board and then the score motor runs continually. The score reset relay also cycles continually so does one of the solinoids on the ball count unit. Any ideas on where to look. Thanks
 
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Do the score reels reset to 0 and stop whilst this is going on? A common problem on EMs is that the zero position isn't detected by the switches on the reels which keeps the score motor running.

Btw, great machine I had one on loan for a while, it was a lot of fun but I wasn't keen on the electronic squeaks and squawks though!
 
I assume you mean Aerobatics - Aerobics would have been something though and Zaccaria would have done it justice:)
 
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astyy said:
Do the score reels reset to 0 and stop whilst this is going on? A common problem on EMs is that the zero position isn't detected by the switches on the reels which keeps the score motor running.

Btw, great machine I had one on loan for a while, it was a lot of fun but I wasn't keen on the electronic squeaks and squawks though!
Click to expand...
The score reels reset to zero ok. One of them had a solinoid problem and I am waiting for a new on however if I set this to zero manually it did play ok. My machine does not. Make any noises so I guess that is another issue to look at later
 
One of 7 relays can start the score motor, shown on row 11 of the schematic, worth looking at what these are up to.

The sound volume may be turned right down there is a pot on the sound pcb next to the speaker.
 
It's not uncommon for the sound board to be missing on Zacc EM's. Check it's actually there in the left hand side of the backbox :thumbs:
 
Thanks for your help so far folks. I have a complete sound board and twisted the black knob but it has made little difference. I have readjusted all the score reels and they all now stop at zero every time so seem ok. After a bit of messing about my problem seems to be with the Game Relay or latch trip relay which is part of the same assembly. If I power up the machine and press start all the score reels return to zero and it cycles the ball count and reset score relay. However the game relay also cycles but not far enough to latch it. If i push it across then all seems well and it will play fine. they latch trip relay seems to be fighting it and appears to be powered on by the last switch with orange and black wires. Any thoughts
 
Superleggo said:
However the game relay also cycles but not far enough to latch it. If i push it across then all seems well and it will play fine. they latch trip relay seems to be fighting it and appears to be powered on by the last switch with orange and black wires.
Click to expand...

The Game RE Trip is a simple circuit comprising only 3 switches. The Game RE switch is closing as it tries to latch so have at look at the switch on the Ball Index RE and Make/Break on the Game Over RE - they'll both be Orange/Black - Yellow wires. They might be mis-adjusted closed or those Relays are closed when they shouldn't be to investigate next. I see the Game Over RE is a latch/trip type too so perhaps this isn't changing state when it should to open the MB which is shown in the closed position in schematic state below. Slipping little strips of card between the blades is useful to diagnose which is activating the Trip.

Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs here.

1539152398181.png
 
Thanks for your help. No you are not teaching me to suck eggs. I am very new to this and trying to find my way round.

I will have another go tonight.
 
Well I have made a bit of progress an can cheat the game into sort of playing.

Here is the game relay. If i insert a piece of card in the left switch it will allow the relay to latch and start the game as the right hand coil is no longer activated and hence allows it to latch. The game appears to play ok but the ball count lights no longer show nor does the game over lights at the end of a game.

IMG_4152.JPG

IMG_4153.JPG

obviously this is not a good resolution as you have to open the play field to start the game.

The Game over relay looks like this

IMG_4154.JPG

ball index relay

IMG_4158.JPG

Any thoughts?
 
The orange/black wire leads to parallel switches on the Ball Index RE and Game Over RE so either of those switches closed energises the Game RE Trip solenoid. You could do the card trick with each of those switches in turn to work out which (taking the card strip out of the Game RE) then we can work out what activates that etc.

Also check some basics to do with game start/resets:-
Outhole switch is open when ball removed
Coin switches are open (can you unplug the coin door on this machine?)
Tilt switches are open
Credit switch opens (likely ok as you mentioned it starts a game)

When checking the relay stack switches look for shorts across lugs, also gentle tugs on the wires to ensure good solder joints. If you manually close the stacks (machine unplugged!) you can view that the normally open switches close and vice versa.

I wouldn't worry about the ball lights the ball count unit isn't stepping, that's just another symptom likely related.

Good luck, it's Friday so the whole weekend ahead to sort this:thumbs:
 
Thank you for the help I am getting closer. There must have been some dust of wire bridging the ball index relay as I cleaned all the top of the switches off and the machine moves on a stage.

It sets its self to play but does not spit the ball out any longer to start the game . if you move the ball out manually and put it in the plunger the game will play . when the ball returns to the out hole it will spit it out for the rest of the game.

It will then restart ok but will not spit the ball out. Is this likely to be related to the ball lights being out which have not rectified themselves.

Thank you for your patience with me!
 
Glad to be of help, probably just my moral support is nudging you and Aerobatics forward!

Ok so the Game RE is latching now and game startup appears normal, but the first ball to play isn't ejecting, but subsequent ones do for the correct number of balls per game (3 or 5 per jumper setting)? Ball in play lights out and still no Game Over light? What about Tilt behaviour does that light?

If you can clarify the above I'll study the schematic in the morning for more ideas:thumbs:

Btw, where are you based?
 
Yes you are understanding it correctly. it spits out the correct number of balls my jumper is set to 5. There are no tilt lights I have never seen them so that may be a bulb or a corroded holder. I have replaced most bulbs in the play field but none in the back box yet. However at one stage all the ball count lights lit and so did end of game. I am have never seen a tilt light. However I did clean the roller ball tilt /lift mechanism and it stops the game. I have not tried the the pendulum tilt but I did clean it up so the contact points were clean. I have not tried to see if it stops a game. The only other lock devices I have noticed is the one on the coin door which appears to be set correctly. There seems to be another by the score motor which seems to make no difference if I put a piece of card in between the point or not.

I am based in Cornwall so a long way from you!
 
Ps - I got some sound out of the sound unit by turning up the black knob. It now appears to squeak when I power it off. it does not appear to make any other noise during the game but this has been low down my focus list.
 
The ball eject mech (ball release coil) is pulsed by NO switch 4B on the score motor in series with a switch on the Outhole RE so both must close and it would eject as the motor turns a half revolution 4th cam. 4B is assumed good as subsequent balls eject. I suspect then the Outhole RE isn't energising for the first ball only?

1539410924002.png

Below is the Outhole RE circuit. As the problem is only the first ball I'd investigate the switches that change state for the game period on the stepper units, particularly the Ball Count Unit as you mentioned having problems with its lights.

1539412710213.png

The ball in play lights are straight forward, controlled by the brass spider thing that rotates on the back of the Ball Count unit check it is moving freely the contacts and traces are clean (metal polish them not abrasive). If the machine hasn't been used in sometime the Ball Count Unit and all mechs probably need a service for free movement - you can manually flick the plungers into the solenoids to test the step up and reset actions.

Also don't assume any bulbs or holders work, I've been there!

Here's a pic of a nice clean example on the machine I had here, note clean and contacts align nicely

1539413280983.png

I agree regarding the sound get the game logic working first, can always buy a new sound card if required.

Good luck fettling and Happy Saturday:)
 
Cleaning the ball count unit seems to have done the trick.

now the lights
The game over lights comes from the game over relay white and orange? to yellow and black on the ball count unit at position 0 then yellow from the ball count. Are the ball lights linked?
 
Superleggo said:
The game over lights comes from the game over relay white and orange? to yellow and black on the ball count unit at position 0
Click to expand...
Yes per snippet below, when Game Over RE not energised if the Ball Count Unit isn't at position 0 then the Tilt lights rather than Game Over.

Superleggo said:
Are the ball lights linked?
Click to expand...
No the ball lights are connected Brown (6VAC) to their individual coloured wires attached to the bakerlite disk on the back of the Ball Count Unit. The dashed boxes below represent the position of the rotating brass spider thing which individually connects them to Yellow (Common).

If you take care (danger electric!) you can jumper the colour wire side of the sockets to the Yellow common briefly to check bulb and socket. Don't jumper Brown to Yellow or sparks will fly and fuses needed. Jumper wires and slips of card are very useful in EM world.

Btw, if you want to learn EM schematics, this thread is ace - https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic

1539424309628.png
 
Superleggo said:
Are the ball lights linked?
Click to expand...
They aren't electrically linked to the Game Over/Tilt but their circuits do both travel separately across the same bakerlite board on the back of the Ball Count Unit.

Another thing to check are the plug connectors to the head, the plugs and sockets should be nice and clean, tight fit and conducting properly across each pin.
 
Thanks for the jumper tip. I eventually traced it back to the fuse holder. after a good clean up the lights came back. I now got lights I have never seen before!

You are a complete star for guiding me through. i was starting to think I may not get there.

I have got to go out now as I am already an hour late!

I can't wait to get back and see if there are any other minor issues.

Many thanks
 
Well I have had a bit of fun at last and played the machine at last. I seems ok but it still sometimes will not release the first ball. However if you turn it off and on again it comes up with ''Tilt''. It will then restart fine. I guess this is not quite right and the tilt is not quite right. Are there more than 2 tilts?

I do't have any old 10p coins so I am adding credits by either flicking the switch on the 10p mechanism or winding the credit reel round. This is fine for the time being butI am not keen on the kids having access to the door as there is 240v live inside. Is there a simple method of changing the coin mech? Alternatively I guess I could add a parallel switch to the 10p coin mech switch. Or is there a free play setting.

The top hole up unit ejects the ball fine now but the lights do not work. see the pictures.

IMG_4209.JPG

From underneath

IMG_4208.JPG

If you look carefully the the little resistors/diodes or capacitors are broken. I guess this is the cause. The wiring diagram shows 1N4002. I guess they are supposed to do something. Add specials or bonus? or do they just show they are available?
IMG_4206.JPG

Well here is my best effort so far. I am miles off a replay but this is the first EM machine since I was 16 when these came out!
IMG_4211.JPG

Apart from the poor score what is the icon in the top left corner. There seem some others unlit if I jumper across.
 
Superleggo said:
Or is there a free play setting.
Click to expand...
The normal way is to jumper the "Replay Unit SW Open @ Zero" W-BL/BR, that will trick it into thinking it always has credits and you can always use the credit button to start - look at the Button RE circuit.

Superleggo said:
If you look carefully the the little resistors/diodes or capacitors are broken. I guess this is the cause. The wiring diagram shows 1N4002. I guess they are supposed to do something. Add specials or bonus? or do they just show they are available?
Click to expand...
That's a diode which is in use as those lamps are across the 24VAC rail in series with that sand resistor. There is one diode per lamp on that crescent, the others should still work to highlight the award for the hole assuming the Hole Up Unit mech is stepping. I think they set the award for elsewhere on the playfield when the ball drops into it.

Superleggo said:
Apart from the poor score what is the icon in the top left corner. There seem some others unlit if I jumper across.
Click to expand...
I've never seen that! The below maybe, try toggling the Extra Play Unit RE on/off to check. (or check it's Yellow/Violet-Yellow wiring).

1539466043797.png
 
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Actually, coining up the machine is pretty fun. I bought some old 5p/shillings off Ebay for my EM and there's lots of old 10p coins for sale too, more than face value unfortunately but not too bad for multiple lots e.g.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BULK-OLD...OM-10-TO-250-OLD-TEN-PENCE-COINS/192256808051

Btw Aerobatics is included in the free Zaccaria Pnball App on Google Play, that's useful to check game play functionality if you have an Android device.
 
The new diodes arrived in the post yesterday. I can't believe how cheap they are. 20 of them for 99p delivered!

These were a real pain to solder in as there is little room for the soldering iron and my hands. holding the two wires and the diode onto the post and soldering took me ages as I could never get all the items to combine at the same time. The first 4 took me and hour or more . the 5th one I did by cutting off the old diode wire half way down and then soldering the new diode to the old piece of wire. I did this in seconds. You live and learn!
IMG_4255.JPG

All the lights now work. I replaced all the bulbs while I was there.
IMG_4257.JPG


IMG_4258.JPG
 
I have also adjusted one of the spoon switches on the pop bumpers. This has made an amazing difference and it is now very responsive. I was thinking I had a weak coil which is obviously not the case.

The games now seems to work well except for a few minor issue

Firstly I seem to lack any skill at playing the game !! I guess with more practice that should improve. I am certainly not going to get a replay yet.

Secondly I am still having intermittent problems on start up getting the first ball to eject. in about 1 in 4 games it will not eject. It is overcome by switching the game of and on or tilting the machine. Not ideal so I need to have another look at switch 4B on the score motor as the out holes switch works at all other stages.

Thirdly I bought some old 10p coins but they do not drop through the coin mechanism. I have not worked how these things are supposed to work. so a job for this afternoon.
 
Hi,

Re. the coin mechanism; presuming that it's the industry standard of the time (an 'S 10' or equivalent), then the correct coin is a precise fit in the tilting cradle at the top. This moves under the weight of the coin, and the coin is thrown across the frame of the acceptor, bouncing off the fixed 'anvil' lower down, and then reaches the 'accepted' channel. The adjustable support on the slope can be moved to help. An incorrect coin should fail to follow the same path and drop through the 'rejected' channel. Remove the acceptor from the door (if you haven't already done so) to get a better view

Most machines back then also had a coin lock-out facility, so that coins inserted when the machine was off would be returned. This is usually achieved with a small solenoid mounted on the door, which when not energised places an obstruction in each coin acceptor, so that even the correct coin is rejected. With the power on, the obstructions are withdrawn allowing normal operation
 
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