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WPC(89) transformer wiring anomaly

Durzel

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Hi

So I recently bought one of @myPinballs's Mod Power Expander boards, and set about installing it in my TAF yesterday - but got stuck.

Essentially, the instructions for the mod show a different plug wiring configuration to what I have. Once I realised this I obviously aborted the install for fear of doing damage.

I have done some research and established the following..

Here is the WPC schematics for the male power plug, and the female plug configuration for 230 VAC:

80454

I have verified that the male portion of my transformer plug is correct per the above. The female part of the plug, however, is not wired the same as above. Mine looks like this:

80455

80456

So it looks to me like the white cable is plugged into pin 4 (white/brown on male) instead of pin 7 (white/orange), and my looped orange cable is in pin 3 (white/black) and pin 6 (brown) instead of pin 3 and pin 9 (orange) per the schematic.

My line filter box looks like this - does this look normal?

80457

What is confusing to me is that my game works perfectly in this configuration with no electrical issues that I am aware of or can see. I can repin the female connector if it is safe to do - i.e. move the white cable from pin 4 to pin 7, and one end of the orange loop from 6 to 9 - but not having electrical skills I don't know if this is a good idea or not. Because this configuration differs from what the schematics & @myPinballs's instructions show - I don't know where I'm supposed to insert the blue and brown cables from it.

What would be the consequences of repinning this the correct way? Is it possible the line filter box is wired "wrong" internally or something? Does anyone know the voltages each of these 9 wires from the transformer provide?

To confirm:
  1. The game works 100% (except for a sticking flipper which is mechanical)
  2. It was sourced from Europe (Italy), and still has the Euro plug on it (plugged into an adaptor)
  3. I have the correct transformer - 5610-12835-00
  4. The male plug off the transformer is wired correctly per the WPC schematic
  5. Two pins (white, and one orange end of loop) on the female plug off the transformer are wired incorrectly - does not correspond to any voltage selection wiring configuration in the schematic
Thoughts?
 

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Durzel

Durzel

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Maybe I'm talking to myself on this one.. :)

Did some more digging in the schematics and noticed this under "optional power connections":

80477

This looks to be how mine is wired (loop between 3 and 6 instead of 3 and 9, white in 4 instead of 7), so if I'm understanding this correctly my pin is wired for 206 VAC? Why does it work on UK power? Would I be safe to convert it to 230 VAC?

Full schematic: http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/PDF Pinball Misc/Williams WPC Schematic manual.pdf
 

Jay Walker

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Taking the Black wire as pin 1, the differences in allocation seem to cut out a section of each half of the primary winding - the 'upper' half is 1 to 6 rather than 1 to 9, the lower 3 to 4 rather than 3 to 7, for "low-line" conditions, where the mains voltage isn't quite 230. The voltage outputs from the transformer secondaries are slightly increased to compensate. You'd be fine to alter the wiring to the 230 pattern.

The mains-voltage ac from the filter box is across the Black and White wires, pins 1 & 4. Pin 1 has Pin 2 in parallel on the male plug, and Pin 4 has Pin 5. Similarly, Pin 7 (the 'proper' 230v option) has Pin 8 in parallel. You could do worse than connect this additional device (assuming it's using a mains power input) between 2 and 8
 
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Durzel

Durzel

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Hi @Jay Walker . Think we just crossed eachother with replies. Looking at the schematic it looks like my pin is wired for 206 VAC, as in it matches the wiring on the "Optional Power Connections" on page 3 of the schematics.

I don't really know what this means in the grand scheme of things, aside from the fact that my transformer is presumably getting 206 VAC, and the machine works?
 
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Jay Walker

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Our replies did indeed cross. Your mains input to the machine>filter box>transformer remains what it is, the low-line settings are utilised to produce a little more on the transformer output voltages, i.e. as if your mains voltage was lower. There'd be no harm in changing it to the 230 setting
 
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Durzel

Durzel

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So, for the sake of conformity, would it be safe for me to repin the female connector for 230 VAC - that is to say, move white from 4 to 7, and one of the orange loops from 6 to 9, i.e. transposing both those cables left by one?

The mains-voltage ac from the filter box is across the Black and White wires, pins 1 & 4. Pin 1 has Pin 2 in parallel on the male plug, and Pin 4 has Pin 5. Similarly, Pin 7 (the 'proper' 230v option) has Pin 8 in parallel. You could do worse than connect this additional device (assuming it's using a mains power input) between 2 and 8
Also, as usual, you were bang on with your suggestion. This is exactly what @myPinballs mod says to do.. this is why I got confused and aborted the install as it wasn't the same as what I already had..

80482
 
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Jay Walker

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Yes, doing that would use the full extent of the primary/input windings, and (given the actual input voltage being 230) bring the output voltages down from the slightly raised levels they're at now
 

myPinballs

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Right then. Just back into the country and back home now so.....

You should always always always! check what your game is jumpered for line voltage wise. Why would you even think a game from Italy can be used in the uk without being checked?? Line voltage for the uk is 240vac and Europe is 220vac and this is why William’s designed jumpers for the ranges along with some options for operator low line conditions ( which you current setting is one). There is also a generic std at 230vac so that’s in tolerance for both specs (+-10%)

Anyway, running a game jumpered as 205vac with 240vac is a bad idea because you will be over volt on all the transformers ouputs

Put the jumper to uk spec as you are in the uk . simple
 

Vimtoman

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Some Transformers have multiple windings for multiple primary voltages .
Their catering for Euro and UK mains supply voltage levels.
220,230,240 etc
Just choose the correct one for the uk ,which is 240v.
 
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Durzel

Durzel

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Right then. Just back into the country and back home now so.....

You should always always always! check what your game is jumpered for line voltage wise. Why would you even think a game from Italy can be used in the uk without being checked?? Line voltage for the uk is 240vac and Europe is 220vac and this is why William’s designed jumpers for the ranges along with some options for operator low line conditions ( which you current setting is one). There is also a generic std at 230vac so that’s in tolerance for both specs (+-10%)

Anyway, running a game jumpered as 205vac with 240vac is a bad idea because you will be over volt on all the transformers ouputs

Put the jumper to uk spec as you are in the uk . simple
First game I've imported, I thought all of Europe was harmonised to 230 VAC now? Anyway, consider myself educated. Thanks :)

@Monkeyboypaul - my duff GI dimming is on TZ, not TAF.
 

Paul

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You should always always always! check what your game is. Line voltage for the uk is 240vac

Sorry mate - used to be 240v - is now 230v +10% -6%.

Bloody Europe again![emoji23]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

myPinballs

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Sorry mate - used to be 240v - is now 230v +10% -6%.

Bloody Europe again![emoji23]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Think I said that to further down, I've had a long few days so might not be that clear. Anyway whatever, jumper for what the manual says for U.K. End of
 
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Durzel

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Got a Molex extractor coming tomorrow, until then it's staying unplugged :)

Thanks for the help.
 
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Durzel

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Repinned the plug, she still lives!..

80571

Interesting observations..

  • My transformer hum (wasn't loud, but it was there during attract mode) is gone. It's dead silent now.
  • Thing hand and Bookcase rotate seem to move slightly slower than they did before
  • My Thing eject is slightly softer now, so it doesn't kick it so hard and it is actually a smoother ride to the UR flipper
  • The chair and swamp kickout are softer now too, though doesn't affect gameplay

I couldn't explain why the above is the case, I presume it has something to do with the voltage conversion by the transformer.
 

myPinballs

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Repinned the plug, she still lives!..

View attachment 80571

Interesting observations..

  • My transformer hum (wasn't loud, but it was there during attract mode) is gone. It's dead silent now.
  • Thing hand and Bookcase rotate seem to move slightly slower than they did before
  • My Thing eject is slightly softer now, so it doesn't kick it so hard and it is actually a smoother ride to the UR flipper
  • The chair and swamp kickout are softer now too, though doesn't affect gameplay

I couldn't explain why the above is the case, I presume it has something to do with the voltage conversion by the transformer.

As I mentioned earlier your game was plugged for a much lower line voltage so everything voltage related would have been higher than it should where the voltage output to the game is unregulated , which is the coil voltage, flasher voltage , lamp voltage etc

Never assume a game is plugged correctly. There are also variations on line voltage across the uk so always check exactly what you have at the wall. For me I have 243vac
 
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Durzel

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Well all sorted now, and now know that I need to check this on any pin I buy. I mistakenly assumed Italy was on 230 VAC (thought whole on Europe was harmonised on 230 now)

Anyway fortunately it seems no harm done and I can get on with installing your board now :)
 

biglouieuk

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I'm going through the exact same situation, found this post and it's very helpful.

I'm putting the @myPinballs power board in and found my HS2 is jumpered incorrectly, so reading this was great background.

I need to find the jumper settings in the manual, I have 243v in my house.

Not sure why my sticker says 220v anyone seen that before?
 

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Neil McRae

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I would have though 220v would be fine? - but if not set thenI would set it to uk rather than what that meter is telling unless the meter is super accurate unit (most of them are cheap and rubbish).


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Durzel

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Sticker says 220v because originally, I would presume, it was shipped to Europe.

I wouldn’t expect a pin in the UK that has been restored to be wired wrong for UK volts, but we’re beating a drum on that one at this point...

Here is the schematic you need:

On Page 1 is the power wirings.

230v is right for UK, per @myPinballs install instructions. Power is 240v over here and often more than that.

I can’t really make sense of how yours is wired because it appears as if one of the cables from the transformer (the white one) is hardwired to the line filter box, instead of going though the connector.

It’s also hard to make out the orientation of the connector to be able to tell what it’s wired for. On the basis that it looks like the orange loop is in 3 and 9 and black is in 1, it might already be correctly wired for 230v.

I couldn’t tell you why that white wire is just snipped though, I would presume that the wire hanging out is live - and I can certainly see a bit of the core coming out the stealth in your photos. I know one of the input wires is snipped too (why??) but it doesn’t look like the snipped incoming wire is the same one that is snipped on the output..
 
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ronnie63

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On the subject I have a contact that can rewind transformers, I had a smaller jukebox one done and it cost 60 quid!
 

Pick Holder

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I would tap all Bally Williams to 240v personally in the UK. It is worth testing your power at a socket to see the exact voltage.

The official stance is 230v (it has not been 240v for years) ac at 50hz plus or minus 10%

Some rural areas I have read nearly 260v which was overhead fed mains near Evesham, Worcs.

NEVER USE A UK TO EURO ADAPTOR ON A PINBALL - some these can have NO GROUND CONENCTION. Cut the plug off and wire a UK plug top to it.

@ronnie63 - great to know you are friends with a transformer winder. They can be useful to know!!! My friends dad use to have his own place but 15 years ago they went out of business. Actually a bit surprised nobody has replaced all the bally williams voltages with a switched mode PSU yet..... Should not be a problem with LED loaded games. But I am off at a tangent.
 

BigIan

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I would tap all Bally Williams to 240v personally in the UK. It is worth testing your power at a socket to see the exact voltage.

The official stance is 230v (it has not been 240v for years) ac at 50hz plus or minus 10%

Some rural areas I have read nearly 260v which was overhead fed mains near Evesham, Worcs.

NEVER USE A UK TO EURO ADAPTOR ON A PINBALL - some these can have NO GROUND CONENCTION. Cut the plug off and wire a UK plug top to it.

@ronnie63 - great to know you are friends with a transformer winder. They can be useful to know!!! My friends dad use to have his own place but 15 years ago they went out of business. Actually a bit surprised nobody has replaced all the bally williams voltages with a switched mode PSU yet..... Should not be a problem with LED loaded games. But I am off at a tangent.

yeah they changed the law to harmonise with the rest of europe in the 1990s
230v +10% -6% at 50hz +/- 1hz (over a 24 hour period) this handily covers the 240v of uk and the 220 of Europe without having to change anything at the supply end, the law means the suppply can vary between 216 and 253v (over a 24 hour period)

Over a 24 hour period is important and allows supply companies to drop the voltage at peak times and then wind it up at later when demand is less. the law was supposed to change to 230+/- 10% but seems to have been forgotten about..
 

biglouieuk

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I didn't know ANY of this about our power supplies.. just reading about the AC and DC wars back in the day and the right to standardise. AC went long distance, so is a winner!

Right..off to look at schematics. See what's what and see if all is well. That cut wire worries.me, but might be fine!
 

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myPinballs

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The point to change this back to the 230vac settings as per williams spec is because you are currently using the 218vac setting and have 243vac at your wall. Transformers and rectifiers are 'dumb' devices and will just pass through and convert what they are given, so currently on your game all your rectified unregulated dc voltages will be over spec. This is one reason why voltage regulators are used with critical levels. ie your regulated 12v dc & 5v dc will not be effected by this, but your coil voltage and flasher voltage will! They will be a factor higher!

The transformer provides many settings for lots of different regions and low line levels and is really the best design for this type of use there is, so any game should really be checked it is set correctly or using the best individual setting for the location.
 
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Durzel

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I didn't know ANY of this about our power supplies.. just reading about the AC and DC wars back in the day and the right to standardise. AC went long distance, so is a winner!

Right..off to look at schematics. See what's what and see if all is well. That cut wire worries.me, but might be fine!
That wire you’re nearly touching there is - I believe - live.

It looks to me that the snipped wire is connected to the transformer on the male connector. There was a snipped wire on that too but it looks like it would’ve been going into another pin.

I don’t know what the AC voltage is for that wire, but quite a few of them are significant.
 

biglouieuk

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So the snipped white wire, I think is just bi-passing the connector.
IMG_20200118_123436.jpg

Easy to see in that picture. I'm trying to work out, what number the pins are in the plug. :)
 
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Durzel

Durzel

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The point to change this back to the 230vac settings as per williams spec is because you are currently using the 218vac setting and have 243vac at your wall.
Are you sure that’s right @myPinballs ?

The rear of his plug matches your instructions..

IMG_2777.jpeg

(I don’t think @biglouieuk is holding it up right in the last photo, there’s no configuration that has the orange loop use pin 1)

Happy to be told I’m wrong.
 
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