UK Pinball league & 4 balls...

[David_Vi]

I have been deliberating about this post, especially as I'm new to the UK regional leagues and don't want to be seen as rocking the boat...

However.
The four ball thing is perplexing.

What is the reasoning behind this? The only reason I know so far is there's decades of statistics in the form of scores which are four balls.

But why is this even relevant when every machine plays differently. Some drastically. I spend a lot of time making our games play harder, where I bet in some cases you could get a higher score two weeks ago on three balls than when set to four on Sunday.
How can the data mean anything if you consider this?

Surely it would have been a good time to archive these stats and start fresh, especially with the inclusion of new regions.

I've spoken/asked a few people about it and they also don't understand it, so I thought it would be interesting to have a discussion or find the reasoning behind it?
Do people really look back years and compare scores?

 

[Tucks]

and don't want to be seen as rocking the boat...

don't then

 

[Tucks]

We should really make it 5 ball so we all can get to a multiball.

 

[Sven Normansson]

When we created the league all games we're either 3 or 5 balls. 4 balls is done because it is different to the norm.

 

[replicas]

If it’s not broke why fix it ?

 

[David_Vi]

Depends who you talk to. Some think four balls is unnecessary, adds more work, especially if you have to get to dip switches. Plus makes games play a lot longer.
I'm making most of ours a lot harder because I'm worried about timing. Then I've goto change them back to 3 balls for our evening strikes comp.

I thought the four balls might be from a time where there were less pins so more playing time.

 

[Matt Vince]

I think the attendances were lower at the start so having the machines set up for longer games and more fun all round was the priority. It worked so well that more of us went and enjoyed ourselves. Then (certainly in London at least) the numbers got so high that people would leave rather than wait for hours to play all 5 games. Some people don't come at all now, mostly because there is so much choice of which events to attend and people prefer those where they can play more games (in my opinion).
The lack of WPPR points last year certainly didn't help either but this has been resolved this year. I wouldn't miss 4 ball play if it changed to 3, I would also like the chance to play more than 5 machines although that isn't possible at all venues. The scoring system doesn't need all meets to have the same number of games played either. I always loved the great stats that the UK League website had to offer as well. it is unrivalled i believe but the upkeep is huge and I miss some of those features being up to date (harsh to moan that such a good job has been done and now you want more, just admitting i'm greedy ). I'll still be going either way but if regional co-ordinators want to play 3 balls then perhaps reach out to Wayne, the submitted scores are still the scores on those machines at the end of the day. There have always been differences in how each region runs meets in any case. Some didn't allow single player games, the number of games played have always been different, fee's vary etc. Maybe this is just another variance to suit your region?

I would prioritise what you believe provides the most fun for the people you are doing all this hard work for. At the end of the day your efforts will feel better rewarded the more fun everyone has!

Keep up the good work!

 

[M4carp]

Depends who you talk to. Some think four balls is unnecessary, adds more work, especially if you have to get to dip switches. Plus makes games play a lot longer.
I'm making most of ours a lot harder because I'm worried about timing. Then I've goto change them back to 3 balls for our evening strikes comp.

I thought the four balls might be from a time where there were less pins so more playing time.

What happens with Gottliebs, Im sure my Goldwings and Robowar 3 or 5 balls only

3 balls with no extra ball if possible would be the way I would go with the number of people attending these days, we are talking 40 people at some meets.

4 balls is just weird having played 3 ball games forever, to me anyway.

 

[Marvello]

Never been to a comp, I always thought 3 balls was the universal standard for Pinball so when you mentioned 4 balls, that does seem odd for someone looking in from the outside.

 

[Sven Normansson]

What happens with Gottliebs, Im sure my Goldwings and Robowar 3 or 5 balls only

old games set to 5 balls, newer games 3 balls. 4 balls if possible

3 balls with no extra ball if possible would be the way I would go

Those aren't the rules.
why not:
Football, 60 minutes
Tennis, best of 3 games (actually I am all for this its dull as F)
Snooker, halve the number of red balls
etc.

Those aren't the rules guys.

4 balls is just weird having played 3 ball games forever, to me anyway.

Which is why it was done by the founder, Eddie Mole.

WPPR. The league predates the IFPA.

 

[M4carp]

That’s cool but I’m not looking forward to messing with 13 pins of all era’s for my league meet and some will not meet the criteria of 4 balls.
And 4 balls is still weird.

Whats classed as an old game, pre what?

Things can change, it’s happened in cricket, football and rugby.

 

[Sven Normansson]

Whats classed as an old game, pre what?

Things can change, it’s happened in cricket, football and rugby.

if it doesn't have a 4 ball setting then its down to the coordinator to make a call.

Yes, things change, we changed the points system, added the bonus point and this year there's playoffs.

 

[M4carp]

if it doesn't have a 4 ball setting then its down to the coordinator to make a call.

Yes, things change, we changed the points system, added the bonus point and this year there's playoffs.

Ok, thanks.

 

[Wayne J]

Depends who you talk to.

Who are these people? Absolutely no-one reached out to me when I was either Regional Coordinator or League Coordinator, NO-ONE.

the numbers got so high that people would leave rather than wait for hours to play all 5 games

It certainly was always a puzzle to me that only 5 games were played, when many more were available. Especially when it's been shown that in the Midlands and North that it doesn't add significant amounts of time on when 13/14 machines are used, as there's no waiting.

Maybe having 2 new regions this year people will vote with their feet and attend them if they deem them more enjoyable

The lack of WPPR points last year certainly didn't help

It didn't effect the Midlands or North.

I'll still be going either way but if regional co-ordinators want to play 3 balls then perhaps reach out to Wayne,

Don't reach out to me - I can't change anything, I'm only the Treasurer - Paul (@Wizcat ) is the UK Pinball League Coordinator, it's his problem now

 

[David_Vi]

Who are these people? Absolutely no-one reached out to me when I was either Regional Coordinator or League Coordinator, NO-ONE

It's causal conversation and talk with other regions when we were planning our meets. Nothing like "I hate four balls" just that it's a strange one, people don't understand why, and makes the logistics a little more challenging, especially with timings.
Not necessarily coordinators just players who wonder why, but obviously not enough to question it as who would want to rock the boat and "it's always been that way".

So I thought I'd just ask, don't ask, don't get.

For our first ever league meet we're having 30+ attendees, which is a lot for us. I didn't expect that many, it's not problem (we're chuffed that we've got that many players round here), I just overthink and plan everything so I have been worried about that many people getting through 8 games in four/five hours.

It didn't effect the Midlands or North

My theory on this is we're spoilt for choice for events down south, whether that's around London or East Anglia, whereas midlands and up don't tend to have many if any at all (The demographic seems different too) People have to choose what they can attend.

 

[Moonraker]

I already thought, rightly or wrongly, that the 4th ball was to make up for extra balls being banned... given that most good players would manage atleast 1 extra ball in a normal 3 ball game.

Number of games played has always been determined by how many are physically available and how many the league coordinator/TD on the day is willing to play.

 

[David_Vi]

I already thought, rightly or wrongly, that the 4th ball was to make up for extra balls being banned... given that most good players would manage atleast 1 extra ball in a normal 3 ball game.

Also heard this, but then 3 or 4 is the same for everyone, regardless of if you would have got an extra ball. The games are still the same for everyone.

Number of games played has always been determined by how many are physically available and how many the league coordinator/TD on the day is willing to play

We have heard the talk about London&SE only doing 5 games since we got into the hobby. It doesn't make sense to me, so we've gone with 8.
I thought of 10, but I didn't want to use the pins in congested locations so 8 seems a good balance.

I suppose we'll find out on Sunday

 

[Sven Normansson]

Also heard this, but then 3 or 4 is the same for everyone, regardless of if you would have got an extra ball. The games are still the same for everyone.



We have heard the talk about London&SE only doing 5 games since we got into the hobby. It doesn't make sense to me, so we've gone with 8.
I thought of 10, but I didn't want to use the pins in congested locations so 8 seems a good balance.

I suppose we'll find out on Sunday

counter intuitively, more games doesn't seem to add much in the time it takes, there's just less queueing. I think the minimum in the rules is 3 games (I really ought to know this, I wrote the draft!). We still always seem to end up waiting for one game (Spidey, I'm looking at you!)

 

[M4carp]

Also heard this, but then 3 or 4 is the same for everyone, regardless of if you would have got an extra ball. The games are still the same for everyone.



We have heard the talk about London&SE only doing 5 games since we got into the hobby. It doesn't make sense to me, so we've gone with 8.
I thought of 10, but I didn't want to use the pins in congested locations so 8 seems a good balance.

I suppose we'll find out on Sunday

Good luck Sunday, hope it all goes well

 

[johnwhitfield]

The number of balls isn’t the thing that frustrated me. (I suspect most of my games are still set to 4 balls as I can’t be ****d to change them back)

Getting people to confirm whether or not they are attending was a far bigger issue. We could easily be up or down by 20 people which makes hosting a right pain in terms of catering etc.

Hope your meet goes well.

 

[David_Vi]

We still always seem to end up waiting for one game (Spidey, I'm looking at you!)

I am looking forward to seeing what takes time. I am going to guess TOM and Foo Fighters but I've already got plans to make them harder. Foo already has rubbers off and ball saves nerfed I can't do much more without making it no fun.

 

[Marvello]

I am looking forward to seeing what takes time. I am going to guess TOM and Foo Fighters but I've already got plans to make them harder. Foo already has rubbers off and ball saves nerfed I can't do much more without making it no fun.

I'm not sure what I was doing wrong on Foo but I drained super fast on it.

 

[David_Vi]

I'm not sure what I was doing wrong on Foo but I drained super fast on it.

It's tough but still was the longest playing game at our comp on Saturday.
That's tight tilt, no outlane post rubbers, no extra balls, ball saves cut down by 5 secs all roundand set up fast

 

[KendarTheOrc]

To be fair Foo Fighters does tend to bring out the best of you

 

[Paul]

To be fair Foo Fighters does tend to bring out the best of you

Or it;s the long road to ruin......

 

[Doggard]

Foo games tend to go on for ever……. long