TZ lighting issue crosstalk between bulbs in playfield

[DRD]

I have just bought a nice TZ. The previous owner really looked after it (2 new rottendog boards in past 6 months etc). He also put LEDs in throughout.

I have never had LEDs in a pinball before

When I do the single light test, there seems to be some "cross talk" between the bulbs. For example when a "5 million" light only should be on (just under right magna flip plastic), the "power payoff" light near the piano on the other side of the playfield is on at about 10% normal intensity. But when I turn on the "power payoff" bulb, it lights properly and has no effect on the 5 million light.

Is this perhaps just inevitable board frailty, and some minor voltage leakage somewhere, or induced current I should forget about ? Or is this symptomatic of trouble ahead ? . Might it be because LEDs use so little power that tiny voltage leakage is enough to get some light out of them.

If I replace one of the crosstalk LEDs flashing at 10% intensity when it shouldn't be with a regular incandescent there is no sign that a light is on at all.

Thank you.

 

[mark9]

That's called ghosting, quite normal with leds.

Some leds do it...some premium ones are designed not to.

You may be able to get a patched eprom that cures the problem.

 

[replicas]

@Paul can sort you a eprom.

 

[DRD]

Thanks Mark9. Really helpful advice. It is 20 years since I last played a TZ, so I am rusty on it.

When I bought my Addams a Family it was about 7 years old and had been refurbed by pinball paradise and had not been modified at all. So I felt pretty sure all was right when I got it. With this TZ, I just don't know, it has 3 new Rottendog boards, LEDs, light mods, other mods, it is now 20 years old ....

Can you hear the clock when the minute clicks over on yours when the game is in attract mode? My clock seems a bit noisy and I have already had a broken clock error message, this took turning it on and off 3 times to clear it and now it is fine. Do you put Teflon spray or other lubricant on the gears or motor to help it do its thing ?

 

[replicas]

Do not use any lubricants on any part of your machine, they don't need it. Only gearbox on motors are in need of it, nothing else.
Broken clock is a normal fault on a TZ mine always said clock was broke but it worked perfectly.
It's just a TZ thing.

 

[mark9]

Is there a new board in the clock? Never had any errors since putting new board in mine, original board is prone to overheating. And make sure the hands aren't catching the optos, can cause errors.
And yes mine is noisy, doesn't bother me though.

 

[elrikos]

http://www.german-pinball-modular.de/final-tz-clock-pcb-english.html
I have one in my TZ. No clock errors since. Even if an opto does go, 1) it tells you on the on board diagnostics and 2) you can use standard optos, rather than the extra sensitive williams ones that you can;t buy anywhere else.

 

[aaronhicksuk]

My TZ clock was really noisy when I first bought it too. It's caused by the spindles the gears spin on becoming loose from the back of the housing and can be fixed stripping it down and sticking them in with superglue. Below is a good guide I copied from http://www.pinballark.com/especial.html you may find useful. My clock sounded like it was going to shake itself to pieces before and now runs as smooth as silk.

[paste:font size="4"]How to make Twilight Zone´s clock to work smooth without the "crappy" noise.

​

When the clock is off the machine, start to remove the front transparent plastic
(If it´s there, I dont have it on my clock, coz of the heat).
Make sure the hour/minute hand are aligned to 12á clock.
If not, simply force the minute-hand until it´s in the right possition.
Carefully remove the lock washer by the help of a tong and remove the hands.

​

Turn the clock around and remove the 4 screws that holds the backpiece.
Carefully remove the backpiece that holds the motor and the gear-wheels and put it aside.
One important thing is to put a mark on the big black "hour-wheel" so you can put it back the right way again.
The arrow on this picture shows the upper part of the clocks cabinett, and that´s now the 12 position, mark the wheel "12" with a pen.
(I think the scheme in the manual shows the wheel 180 degree wrong!)

​

Remove the gear-wheels from the backpiece.
4 of the wheels are locked by a lockwasher, and one is fixed with a pin on the minute-shaft that goes through the clock.
Now put your finger on the shaft´s top and feel if they are fixed or not.
They should be absolutely fixed, otherwise they will cause the vibrations thet makes the clock sound and works bad.
This is the difference between a smooth or a rattle clock!
It was only one shaft properly fixed on my clock.
As a watchmaker I KNOW this is important.

​

The loose ones needs to be glued, HEY!...Don´t be afraid...It´s easy!
Just a little drop on the shaft´s backside is needed.
Pull the shafts about 5mm from the backpiece.
Put some glue on the shaft and press it back again, all the way back until the lock-washer prevent it to go any further.
A good glue is the quick ones, but use it carefully coz it often harden in less than 15 sek´s.
Only glue one in a time.
After a few minutes it´s done.

​

Next step is to put some oil on the shafts where the gear-wheel is positioned.
This must be the first time I recommend to use oil or greace in a pinmachine, but this "toy" is actually working like an ordinary watch, so it needs it.
You can use greace or oil, some pinenthusiasts recommend some kind of silicone grease but I prefer oil.
The amount of oil is so small, so theres no worries about if it shoul messes anything up.
Use a volatile oil, like the oil to a sewing-machine and apply with the help of a nail.
Put it only the few mm´s up the shaft where the weels are positioned

assemble the clock and enjoy the flow and the smooth sound.[/paste:font]

 

[DRD]

Hi. Thanks for the posts and advice. I am new to this forum and tz so am a "taker" right now, but hopefully in the future I can return some of the favours.

I removed the clock and I now understand why these things have given so much trouble over the years. Mine is showing symptoms of overheating in the past (the clock face is warped), the big black hour gear wheel used to tell the hours is also warped a bit (this is worrying, but I think it is ok), the 4 connector blocks that it uses all had marker pen on !!!! I bought it with a new rottendog LED board and a new blue housing already installed.

I am not surprised they are noisy, so many parts, brittle plastic case, front and back screwed on, rattly bearings, it is just built to resonate. And with all the optos and the complicated way it detects hours, this thing is a fragile bit of kit.

The inside of mine was dry as a bone. Other than the "black hour gear", the other gears look good with no visible ware. But lots of friction inside from minor corrosion of the metal shafts over 20 yrs. the main metal shaft (hour hand mounts on this) had really nasty powdery corrosion. I know the rule about never lubricating pinball machines. But this thing needed something. To play safe I just sprayed lightly with gt85 as a starter for 10 - the gears, axles, spindles, motor spindle. This is Teflon in an aerosol solvent base. The warmth of the clock (even with LEDs this thing is warm) will evaporate all the solvent away, hopefully leaving some helpful Teflon behind

The clock was immediately a bit quieter, and so far no more error messages. I am all for gadgets, but I can forsee a more intimate relationship than I would want with this clock in the future.

I am wary of using glue, due to my own lack of ability. I will see if my gt85 sorts it, if so I will treat it to a new clock face without the warping and pray that is the end of it

 

[Monkeyboypaul]

Noisy TZ clock here too. Not bothered, works well. You can buy the clock faces printed direct to the case from ebay - I'd probably go for this if replacing mine. Save screwing up the decal or getting air bubbles in there.

I had some LED ghosting problems due to a lit mod (Robot, Slot machine, etc.) that sat in parallel with the insert LED but didn't have a diode across it, so i removed the Mod's 'lights' and ghosting stopped. That was with the updated non-ghosting ROMs too, so it confused the hell out of me initially

Once you get your TZ's kinks worked out it's a great game to enjoy. Still rarely get Lost in the Zone...