What's new
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Toppers

teachp8

Registered
Joined
Jul 26, 2011
Messages
935
Location
Peterborough
I recognise that WH2O, WW and Tommy have iconic toppers that make the machines stand out and probably were designed to draw the punters in. They are interactive, in WWs case, and can look v cool like the JP topper. What I am less convinced about is spending cash on laser cut toppers, random toys or other such items that seem to have quite an appeal - particularly stateside.



I have three machines that are 'topperless' and they are pretty much going to stay that way as I don't think I could justify the expense - nor do I feel my pins are incomplete without them.



What do you folks do - get toppers for your machines - or leave them nekkid too?
 
if i had a room full i might consider it. in reality though i never keep my pins long enough to justify doing it.

another reason for me is that i have a pinwest cover which would not fit if i had a topper.
 
Get a topper .... *if* it as meant to be there .....and it you can't live without it. I had a Whitewater for a while without a topper and it didn't exactly spoil my enjoyment of the game
smile-1.png




First and foremost with pinball is can you play and enjoy it ? , all the other stuff is peripheral imho ....toppers, mods, playfield shine, no wear, HUO , rare plastics, .....if they float your boat...fine...if not ...fine too.



*By the way I would say Tommys topper is interactive too ... as you look in the silver ball, see yourself reflected and see the mirrored writing on the backbox top reflecting in the ball and identifying you as the Pinball Wizard :cool:
 
GrizZ' date=' post: 1691951 said:
Get a topper .... *if* it as meant to be there .....and it you can't live without it. I had a Whitewater for a while without a topper and it didn't exactly spoil my enjoyment of the game
smile-1.png




First and foremost with pinball is can you play and enjoy it ? , all the other stuff is peripheral imho ....toppers, mods, playfield shine, no wear, HUO , rare plastics, .....if they float your boat...fine...if not ...fine too.



*By the way I would say Tommys topper is interactive too ... as you look in the silver ball, see yourself reflected and see the mirrored writing on the backbox top reflecting in the ball and identifying you as the Pinball Wizard :cool:

Does that go for yourself Ive ? A pinball wizard eh.
 
Funny that, I think it says, 'Ha ha - you'll never reach Valinor!' in the dust on top of my LOTR.





Mark
 
GrizZ' date=' post: 1691953 said:
Thats what it says on the backbox dude....and I'm not one to argue
wink-1.png

Can't argue at that then Dude, or shall we just call you "that deaf dumb and blind kid sure played a mean pinball".

Hope you will be bringing said machine to the Slam, Looking forward to playing the best Tommy out there again.

D.
 
replicas' date=' post: 1691959 said:
Can't argue at that then Dude, or shall we just call you "that deaf dumb and blind kid sure played a mean pinball".

Hope you will be bringing said machine to the Slam, Looking forward to playing the best Tommy out there again.

D.



Tommy will be there
wink-1.png




I did consider retiring the old boy from shows ....but then I thought thats ridiculous, there are too many people these days scared to bring their pride and joys to shows/meets in case god forbid it somehow gets worn out by having a couple of hundred games on it
rolleyes-1.gif
, or picks up a minor scratch or ding. These machines are made to be played and enjoyed by people, not kept as collectors show pieces at home .



I have been taking Tommy to shows since 2005 and only once has a little bit of damage occured .....and that was in my house when I was careless moving it back in !!



Pack them well, unpack at show, let people see and enjoy, show them off, bathe in the glory of yr game, repack it for return journey. Boom ...job done.



Sorry ...didn't mean to go on a rant but a few years ago there were certainly more people willing to bring *lovely* examples of games, to share them.... to show them off, whatever ...... now seems a lot of folk are reluctant to bring their 'investment' along in case it somehow affects the value. Aaaaaaaagh.



Anyway - not directed at anyone in particular, just a short Grizz rant. I am gonna have a few beers now and look forward to my week walking in Snowdonia
biggrin-1.png




See you guys at the Slam !
smile-1.png
 
Ironically I toyed with supplying the laser etched led toppers about 5 months ago as my TZ decal supplier was investigating supplying signs using the same technique (he already had the kit), I thought of applying it to pins and now they are on the market (they may have been prior to this although I had not seen them) I can't say that I am overly impressed with what I have seen made available so far for the price so there may be something in the pipeline in future if they can be made cheaper and more impressive. I think the main issue is copyright of the text design and image, e.g an IJ topper would need the cab font replicating to make it look authentic, this however would infringe copyright and would potentially throw up all kinds of issues so I am on the fence ATM
 
Just do it and only tell those in the "know"...



Did i just think that out loud???
wink-1.png
 
GrizZ' date=' post: 1691961 said:
Tommy will be there
wink-1.png




I did consider retiring the old boy from shows ....but then I thought thats ridiculous, there are too many people these days scared to bring their pride and joys to shows/meets in case god forbid it somehow gets worn out by having a couple of hundred games on it
rolleyes-1.gif
, or picks up a minor scratch or ding. These machines are made to be played and enjoyed by people, not kept as collectors show pieces at home .



I have been taking Tommy to shows since 2005 and only once has a little bit of damage occured .....and that was in my house when I was careless moving it back in !!



Pack them well, unpack at show, let people see and enjoy, show them off, bathe in the glory of yr game, repack it for return journey. Boom ...job done.



Sorry ...didn't mean to go on a rant but a few years ago there were certainly more people willing to bring *lovely* examples of games, to share them.... to show them off, whatever ...... now seems a lot of folk are reluctant to bring their 'investment' along in case it somehow affects the value. Aaaaaaaagh.



Anyway - not directed at anyone in particular, just a short Grizz rant. I am gonna have a few beers now and look forward to my week walking in Snowdonia
biggrin-1.png




See you guys at the Slam !
smile-1.png









Sadly,I am guilty of that.The ramones pin made one outing at the Slam,and it is now retired from touring duties:oops:Dont want my pinbaby getting hurt-waaaay too many hours put in it.

Enjoy Snowdonia btw.If ya see Dark Side Of The Moose by purple moose brewery(Mws Pws as it is in Welsh)try it-really nice.Mad dog and Glas Lyn are okay to



poi
 
Just received an email from Planetarypinball requesting that I cease advertising them .....I have told them that none of it was lifted and is identical to what is on the machine + you can't copyright a grid or some black and white circles, will be interesting to see what happens next :confused:
 
Looks like I am scuppered
sad-1.png
, just found this on the net.



"works based or derived from another copyrighted work -- is the exclusive province of the owner of the original work. This is true even though the making of these new works is a highly creative process"



Double turds :mad:
 
What a nightmare - so by stating you can discuss particular items with them does it mean they are after their cut? All that hard work...





Mark
 
Andy, Don't look on the bad side of this , make it work for you. Get talking to Planetry Pinball and strike out a deal with them. Let them advertise your product and take there cut it could end up being a good deal.

At least give it a try , if it does not work out just walk away.

D.
 
Hi Darren, don't think that they are interested in licensing it which basically means they don't want it but don't want anyone else to have it either, it will end up underground. I am gutted, I put my heart, soul and a lengthy part of my life into it and now someone else decides it's fate, ain't life a bitch. I wonder who was the sad c**t who threw me in?, pinball is a cut throat business by all accounts.
 
Bummer.

Sorry to hear that Andy.

I know you spent a lot of time and effort on the TZ art work. It seems a little petty but I suppose that's all in owning the rights to Bally / Williams pinball.

Shame you can't thrash out something that suits both party's.
 
Andy,



That sucks. I'd still keep advertising it until you get a C&D order, which effectively stops you under threat of legal action. All it says is that they will advise CBS/WMS. If it's anything like past WMS followups then you'll hear nothing....



The shop function should be here in a few weeks all being well. You;re welcome to advertise them here until one of us gets a Cease and Desist....



Paul
 
Be semi creative use TZ instead of twilight zone,or can bve used in various pinballs etc



You know karma tho dude "what ya reap is what ya sow"

So,sometime in future they will get a c and d or summat
 
Yup, you can't unmake these, it has been done, the world knows they exist and as a result of which there is an alternative to TC's offering, mine are computer drawn/generated and the original artwork is hand drawn, any one know of a loophole between two mediums? or maybe is it not worth the mither now that I am in the cross hairs, all ebay listings have been voluntarily removed.
 
Dreads' date=' post: 1692037 said:
Looks like I am scuppered
sad-1.png
, just found this on the net.



"works based or derived from another copyrighted work -- is the exclusive province of the owner of the original work. This is true even though the making of these new works is a highly creative process"



Double turds :mad:



I find that rule pretty hard to interpret without some clear and (legally) proven examples tbh. I guess if you use the TZ logo then fair enough, but if it's less than that then maybe it's not so clear cut. Anyway, they may be interpreting the rules to suit themselves, e.g. their ref to. derivative works, so I'd try and get some free legal advice if I were you Andy.



Maybe try posting on here and see what they say: http://www.copyrightaid.co.uk/forum/ or some other similar forum.
 
    1. What is a derivative work?

      A derivative work is a work that is based on (derived from) another work; for example a painting based on a photograph, a collage, a musical work based on an existing piece or samples, a screenplay based on a book.
    2. Making a derivative work
      1. Permission.

        Legally only the copyright owner has the right to authorise adaptations and reproductions of their work - this includes the making of a derivative work.

        The copyright owner is generally the creator of the original work, or it may be someone the creator has given copyright to (i.e. next of kin).

        Unless you are the copyright owner of the original work, you will probably need the permission of the copyright owner before making a derivative work.
      2. Exceptions that do not require permission
        • You will not require permission if the making and use of derivative work is carried out in a way that is expressly permitted in your country's copyright legislation:

          A typical permitted use would be within an educational establishment for the purpose of instruction and examination. Rules surrounding permitted actions are based on national legislation and will differ from country to country - please check you country's legislation for further details.
        • If copyright has expired (under UK law this typically means the author died over 70 years ago), the work will be in the public domain, and may be used as a basis for a derivative work without permission.
        • You may not require permission if the original work has a licence that explicitly allows the creation of a derivative work. The licence itself may also specify rules and conditions that must be adhered to.
      3. Can I claim that my copy is fair use/fair dealing, or de minimis?

        Unless your activities are explicitly allowed under law, there is no solid legal footing for such a claim.

        Fair use is a complex area and by it's very nature tends to be quite subjective. When a case goes to court a judge will typically make a decision based on a number of factors including the purpose of the use, the nature of the work, the significance of the copied content and the potential impact to the owner's income and reputation. It's important to understand that while the judge may have guidelines and past cases to refer to, there are no simple rules and the outcome can be hard to predict. There have also been cases where a judge has ruled that a use was allowed only to have the decision reversed after appeal; a notable example of the wasBridgeport Music, Inc. v. Dimension Films.
    3. Copyright in the derivative work

      Provided it is significantly different to the original work the derivative work will be subject to copyright in it's own right, and you will own copyright to the new content you have created as a result of your actions. Bear in mind that to be subject to copyright the creation of the derivative work must itself be an original work of skill, labour and judgement; minor alterations that do not substantially alter the original would not qualify.

      Any copyright in the original work remains unchanged; the creation of the derivative work gives no right to the original work being adapted. You cannot extend the duration of copyright in a work by creating a derivative work. If the original work is in the public domain, it will remain in the public domain; you cannot prevent anyone else using the same public domain work for their own purposes.
      • Copyright notices

        Copyright notices are generally helpful by stating to others the copyright status of the work and attributing ownership. In the case of derivative works it is often suitable (and can also be helpful) for the derivative work to show a copyright notice for the original material as well as for the new work.

        For example:

        Copyright © 2012 John Smith, (adapted from 'original work'; copyright © 2008 Joe Bloggs).
    4. Can a derivative work be registered?

      Yes. If the derivative work contains new content or represents significant development in it's own right, it will be subject to copyright and it may therefore be registered in the normal manner.
 
Great post as always Paul, still not sure where it leaves me, I think I am close to the border with it being different enough due to the nature of the content, the created images which were derived from the original would be hard to copyright IMO, you can't copyright a grid, all my grid angles and dimensions would be different due to the perspective anyway, on top of that there is a medium jump from hand drawn to computer drawn in my case, much as I would like to continue supplying these I don't think it is worth the risk of a lawsuit, I am just a little guy trying to make a living and contribute to the evolution of these machines, I can't battle with the big boys:( .



They may come back to me with a license agreement but unlikely as few have been granted since 2003 .



On the plus side you can’t put the genie back in the bottle and the world knows they exist and that an alternative to Treasure Cove’s offerings has been created.
 
Personally? I'd run with it and wait for a C&D order, at which time stop.... (officially)..
wink-1.png




I recon it's not part of copyright since as you say it's not copying or an exact derivative, however I aint a lawyer...
sad-1.png




Paul
 
They would still have to file a claim here in the UK in order to persue it, and that costs money. Would they spend that money chasing a bloke from wales selling a few stickers? Not so sure on that.



Over the years i had several c+d letters for various things like modified xbox consoles, stickers, modified psp's/playstations and t-shirts. Ignored every single one of them (laughed at most) and never heard a thing. The money i was making wasnt a lot so to them i was simply a fly in the ointment...
 
This is the place where the rebels hang out, I like
smile-1.png
. I think the problem in my case is that I am registered as a business seller and have recently received top rated and power seller status on ebay, they may be more inclined to pursue it in that case as I am no longer classed as a private seller, one of my regulars is going to try and smooth things over and possibly attempt to place them through the right channels so I am sitting on the fence at the moment , maybe they will become more in demand as they have been removed from the market, we all want what we can't have but when it's on a plate we turn our noses up (ask the missus
biggrin-1.png
) whatever happens it will be posted on here.



Cheers for all the input.
 
Wonder how the Predator pin guys will get their design past the copyright police?
 
Back
Top Bottom