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Wanted TBL

I

Ijo

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Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
31
Location
Jersey
Looking for a Lebowski - I have a number of machines available to trade. Paying cash an option as well.
 
I’d consider one of these, but gravitating toward paying cash. Barry from Dutch has confirmed EUR11k + shipping, but would rather not wait if one was available.
 

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Neil McRae said:
yup.
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Is this right?

I thought I read on a previous post there was a zero import tariff on pinball machines, in which case, you'd just need to pay UK VAT @20% - but you wouldn't pay Dutch VAT (which is now, and was pre-Brexit, 21%)?!? I've tried to find info on how UK VAT worked for imports pre-Brexit but struggled to find any info, but I think previously you just paid the local (NL in this case) rate, and then any tax income discrepancies caused by differences between national VAT rates was sorted out at an EU level, or just allowed for as part of being an EU member.

I could be wrong though, so happy to be challenged if anyone knows the pre-Brexit rules for certain.
 
Dave Bishop said:
Would be good to get clarification on that.
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Agreed, we could do with an accountant to confirm tbh. I only started investigating because it annoyed me that I didn't understand it, but the info online is hard to follow - as you'd expect I guess, as there have been several rule changes in quick succession, so the available info is often contradictory.
 
You are correct in that there is no specific duty on pinball machines into the UK but:

If you are exporting directly you can avoid paying the local VAT in the country of manufacture but pay it in the country of delivery.

But if you buy at TBL in Holland and pay the vat rate. Then import it in the UK- unsurprisingly the UK inland revenue don't give a stuff you've paid VAT already and will charge you again. Same the other way, exporting a game you've already paid VAT on will incur VAT again as you import it to the EU.

An accountant won't help you with this, you need a tax expert but they will tell you the same.

Neil.
 
If there’s a double taxation agreement in place then would that not mean you only have to pay the VAT once ?
 
I'mp pretty sure that only applies to income rather than value added taxation.
 
Neil McRae said:
You are correct in that there is no specific duty on pinball machines into the UK but:

If you are exporting directly you can avoid paying the local VAT in the country of manufacture but pay it in the country of delivery.

But if you buy at TBL in Holland and pay the vat rate. Then import it in the UK- unsurprisingly the UK inland revenue don't give a stuff you've paid VAT already and will charge you again. Same the other way, exporting a game you've already paid VAT on will incur VAT again as you import it to the EU.

An accountant won't help you with this, you need a tax expert but they will tell you the same.

Neil.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's as I suspected then - basically, if buying from abroad, ensure that the vendor bills it as an export order, and zero-rates local VAT; then pay UK VAT at the border. There'll be some admin fees to get the shipper to pay UK VAT on your behalf, but from a tax perspective, it's actually 1% less paying UK rather than Dutch VAT. So all in, there's probably no material difference between pre- and post- Brexit cost.
 
LondonBase said:
I got mine in January 2022
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What was that £2k extra for? Did you pay Dutch VAT and UK VAT, and did you arrange it as a direct export order from NL to UK? Also, on what date was the order placed, and was the order placed directly with Dutch Pinball? There are a few variables which I think make this all very confusing - I've put a post on a tax website to ask someone qualified to confirm how it should work, and exceptions to standard rules, etc.
 
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JT. said:
What was that £2k extra for? Did you pay Dutch VAT and UK VAT, and did you arrange it as a direct export order from NL to UK? Also, on what date was the order placed, and was the order placed directly with Dutch Pinball? There are a few variables which I think make this all very confusing - I've put a post on a tax website to ask someone qualified to confirm how it should work, and exceptions to standard rules, etc.
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I ordered it and paid for it direct with DP. I didn’t pay them tax or vat. It was shipped with its value invoice and when it arrived I contacted the shipper who told Me there was a bill to pay. I knew it was coming so had factored it into the price. That’s why a TS 4 is $15,000 and £15,500 in the U.K. I ordered it in July and it arrived in January. It took just 4 days to get from Dutch to my door. Was well worth it in my opinion. The way prices are going this year I’m glad I’ve got a great game to see me through lol.
 
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Dave Bishop said:
So @LondonBase how much was it in total?
Sorry if I’m being thick
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I think they are saying that they paid per my previous understanding - no NL VAT paid, but paid £2k at the border for UK VAT. So it's not £2k more than it would have been pre-Brexit, it's £2k on top of the list price (which should exclude local VAT).

I raised this on a tax forum to try and get confirmation, but got no reply - I think because the question is really about NL tax. I did however find this link from the Dutch Chamber of Commerce, which states that exports out of the EU should be zero-rated for local VAT. This aligns with my understanding in my earlier post; that there's no material difference in cost pre- and post- Brexit, the only difference is administrative - that VAT is now paid to the UK government rather than the Dutch government.
 
JT. said:
I think they are saying that they paid per my previous understanding - no NL VAT paid, but paid £2k at the border for UK VAT. So it's not £2k more than it would have been pre-Brexit, it's £2k on top of the list price (which should exclude local VAT).

I raised this on a tax forum to try and get confirmation, but got no reply - I think because the question is really about NL tax. I did however find this link from the Dutch Chamber of Commerce, which states that exports out of the EU should be zero-rated for local VAT. This aligns with my understanding in my earlier post; that there's no material difference in cost pre- and post- Brexit, the only difference is administrative - that VAT is now paid to the UK government rather than the Dutch government.
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That's great to know, I'm tempted with a tbl as my next one in the future.
 
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