System 11 high scores show 00.

[David_Vi]

Next issue with this brought back from the dead DINER.

Claire and I got some high scores while testing.

Turning the machine on later they all show 00 in attract mode.

On two occasions it's restored to factory settings on boot. It has nvram so this confuses me. I know it was hacked in with jumper wires beforeand @myPinballs fixed this for me.


I've also had nearly every transistor for the switch matrix columns die.
Replaced most and now all but one are new trannies. When the first one went and I sent it to Jim as i didn't know how far back the issue went he said components can die under stress (might have misunderstood) especially as this board looked hacked and the game apparently hasn't worked for around a decade.

Seemingly random, haven't fiddled with the pf or backbox. You'll be playing and it's fine, then when you turn on later, you'll notice switches aren't activating.
I've had 4 of the columns die now, Jim fixed one and I did the rest as they failed.

I've learnt a lot since troubleshooting with @AlanJ and @Zaccaria Keith regarding issues on all 3 of my new games and from what I've learnt I can't understand why I'd be losing a different column each time.

If it's a short to a high power circuit wouldn't it effect the same column each time?

A times on boot the knocker goes off as soon as you hit the power switch. I haven't experienced this on other games and I feel it's a sign of things dying.

This game seems to have gremlins in it!

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

The knocker thing is very common on Sys 11s. Ignore that.

 

[AlanJ]

Is it old transistors or have any of the replacement ones failed? If only old ones then perhaps they’re all nearing end of life ?

 

[drhex]

I'm sure there are gremlins in it, sell it before they infect your other machines. Maybe to me

 

[David_Vi]

Noone has any clues on the high scores? Odd

Is it old transistors or have any of the replacement ones failed? If only old ones then perhaps they’re all nearing end of life ?

Hopefully. I left one old one so if that fails next it'll hopefully mean that!
I was tempted to change it but got fed up thought it would be a mini experiment.

I'm sure there are gremlins in it, sell it before they infect your other machines. Maybe to me

For once I have a good response for this..
Its not my machine it's @Lecari's, I'm just the maintenance monkey and fixer upper and by the looks of it she needs a new one of those so try that?

The knocker thing is very common on Sys 11s. Ignore that.

Oh good, it seemed to do it the times things failed so correlation is not causation or something?
It's done it lots without anything dying too.

 

[Mfresh]

David, don't despair! This will all get fixed. I have lost track of how many times I have felt that a problem with a machine is just inexplicable and will never get fixed, and it always ends up getting fixed. A week or two from now your machine will all be fixed and you will be enjoying the machine and forgetting about the initial teething problems...

 

[David_Vi]

David, don't despair! This will all get fixed. I have lost track of how many times I have felt that a problem with a machine is just inexplicable and will never get fixed, and it always ends up getting fixed. A week or two from now your machine will all be fixed and you will be enjoying the machine and forgetting about the initial teething problems...

I have had moments of despair. Especially with locomotion.

I hate problems that seem unique like this high score issue. How weird to lose score and not intials.

 

[David_Vi]

Surprise surprise.

Q48 dead today. And scores zero. I fail to see how they are connected but it would be nice to think they are as we played it lots yesterday, turned machine on and off and scores remained.

 

[DRD]

Keep the faith. Pinball machines in domestic use are actually very reliable.

The problem is when you buy a game that is new to you. Many folk simply don't understand what "working" means. A working game may have 5, 10, 20 faults.

So when you power up tour toy you could have multiple, multi layered problems. Sorting them out can be a pain but I see it as a 3d electro mechanical jigsaw.

You might get lucky here. System 11 games have an adjustment called Highest Scores - it is around adj 13 as you work through the menus.

The options you choose can turn a game from crap to perfect.

I refine the physical and electronic options of every game I buy to try to balance it - fair scoring, fair tilt, equal left - right - centre drains, sensible access to multiballs and jackpots ...

There is an option in the system 11 games about high scores - you have three choices. Try fiddling with this ...

 

[David_Vi]

Keep the faith. Pinball machines in domestic use are actually very reliable.

The problem is when you buy a game that is new to you. Many folk simply don't understand what "working" means. A working game may have 5, 10, 20 faults.

So when you power up tour toy you could have multiple, multi layered problems. Sorting them out can be a pain but I see it as a 3d electro mechanical jigsaw.

You might get lucky here. System 11 games have an adjustment called Highest Scores - it is around adj 13 as you work through the menus.

The options you choose can turn a game from crap to perfect.

I refine the physical and electronic options of every game I buy to try to balance it - fair scoring, fair tilt, equal left - right - centre drains, sensible access to multiballs and jackpots ...

There is an option in the system 11 games about high scores - you have three choices. Try fiddling with this ...

I'm someone who likes to get a game playing well, good reliable feeds from saucers or vuks , nice pops and slings etc. I'll be doing that with Diner when it's more reliable but it plays really nice already to be fair.

I'm not sure how that highest scores adjustment will help. It just turns off the ability to have high scores?
No idea what auto means

I could fiddle and see though.

To be honest although I've replaced all 7 column transistors as they failed one by one I am still expecting one to die by tomorrow or the scores to be 00s

 

[DRD]

Check for shorts from hi voltage (ie solenoids) to that switch column

I had this where a drop target reset bar was rubbing on a wiring loom and that created the short

Look for any rubbing mechs/ solder splats etc

Try continuity resting that switch line at the board pin with all the solenoid board pins to see if that yields erroneous continuity

If that fails, pick one

1. Top yourself
2. Burn it
3. Sell it
4. Take to Andy Netherwood or similar

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

I'm someone who likes to get a game playing well, good reliable feeds from saucers or vuks , nice pops and slings etc. I'll be doing that with Diner when it's more reliable but it plays really nice already to be fair.

I'm not sure how that highest scores adjustment will help. It just turns off the ability to have high scores?
No idea what auto means

I could fiddle and see though.

To be honest although I've replaced all 7 column transistors as they failed one by one I am still expecting one to die by tomorrow or the scores to be 00s

Holy moly …. If you have transistors failing on a daily basis then Houston , you have a problem

 

[David_Vi]

Holy moly …. If you have transistors failing on a daily basis then Houston , you have a problem

Yes.
But what?
It's been suggested there's battery damage that requires cleaning and it's cheaper to just buy a new board!

Tbf all the old trannys died. No new ones yet but I believe it is unheard of

 

[Arv]

Lose that nvram for a bit and go back to as it was. Some weird and wonderful issues can be caused by nvram believe it or not.

 

[DRD]

Don't be afraid of taking it to a professional for help.

I did when mine was behaving like this

 

[AlanJ]

Hopefully it was just a case of dodgy old transistors.

 

[Dex-Jay]

If that fails, pick one

1. Top yourself
2. Burn it
3. Sell it
4. Take to Andy Netherwood or similar

Or do all 4, just don't start with #1. There's an option 5 too. Live with broke for years knowing you will sort it someday. That option 5 is more me.

Multiple faults occuring at the same time may or may not be related and that can throw you. All I do know is failing transistors are guilty for quite a lot of faults. Once the machine starts heating up due to being powered on that's when it starts happening. My TFTC wasn't right for years. I did get there in the end but it was more than just one problem responsible and I was looking for 1 single fault.

 

[David_Vi]

Lose that nvram for a bit and go back to as it was. Some weird and wonderful issues can be caused by nvram believe it or not.

It had nvram when we got it. The battery terminal were damaged and snapped off. I suppose I could get a battery pack and solder the wires on? But I think the nvram is soldered in so I'm not sure if I want to try removing that.

Don't be afraid of taking it to a professional for help.

I did when mine was behaving like this

It's been with Jim who fixed a myriad of issues when we got it. These transistor and high score issues are since we've been able to fire it up.

Hopefully it was just a case of dodgy old transistors.

I really hope so. I don't understand how that relates to the score but fingers crossed

 

[AlanJ]

Doesn’t the nvram plug in?

 

[David_Vi]

Where is it?
Busy cooking

 

[Arv]

It had nvram when we got it

As it was meant as in from the factory. The nvram won't be soldered in.

 

[Jay Walker]

Assuming the NVRam has replaced the original component, it's above the two program ROMs. U 25, I think. The soldering for it was terrible, when this board first appeared.

 

[David_Vi]

Assuming the NVRam has replaced the original component, it's above the two program ROMs. U 25, I think. The soldering for it was terrible, when this board first appeared.

I looked up nvram and noticed in some instances you have to do some jumpers?

My Road Show has nvram but I installed the original batteries so I could keep the "today's scores" feature. But then nvram is still installed, the battery just keeps the time from pausing when off.

I assume if I take nvram out of Diner I have to replace it with something?

 

[Jay Walker]

Yes, an 'ordinary' Ram chip would be needed. As originally fitted. Though as I recall, the board could use either of two types; the unused location for U 23 (the equivalent Ram for audio on the earlier games), has a dual outline for them. The NvRam seems to be using all of the space available, i.e. it's a 28 pin device, rather than 24. Going by the Cpu schematics, the jumper option W 5 or 6 was used to alter some of the pins for those two different-sized chips. But I'd really avoid tackling static-sensitive CMoS chips like this.

I'm puzzled by reference to the time pausing when the machine is off. Sys 11 didn't have a real-time clock.

 

[David_Vi]

Yes, an 'ordinary' Ram chip would be needed. As originally fitted. Though as I recall, the board could use either of two types; the unused location for U 23 (the equivalent Ram for audio on the earlier games), has a dual outline for them. The NvRam seems to be using all of the space available, i.e. it's a 28 pin device, rather than 24. But I'd really avoid tackling static-sensitive CMoS chips like this.

I'm puzzled by reference to the time pausing when the machine is off. Sys 11 didn't have a real-time clock.

It was just context regarding why I put batteries into RoadShow and how I had both installed at once.
With Diner I'd remove the nvram, but I'd need to get the ram chip.
Unless I can leave the NVRAM in ?

Could you share where to get the right ram chip?

 

[Jay Walker]

I think one of the types was numbered '6116', the Cpu parts listing says '2K x 8 Cmos Ram'. I suspect it/they are the kind of chip that's obsolete now, with any remaining ones at a premium.

 

[David_Vi]

Here's some pics of my board and bad soldering
Q28 died most recently

 

[Jagspete]

Don’t think you should be running batteries once nvram fitted as the jumper is to allow charging of the nvram when machine plugged in which means you’ll be running a charge through the battery circuit and this could be explosively bad?

 

[David_Vi]

Don’t think you should be running batteries once nvram fitted as the jumper is to allow charging of the nvram when machine plugged in which means you’ll be running a charge through the battery circuit and this could be explosively bad?

No idea , hence asking. Hopefully I don't need to try the batteries.

For now both my first sys11's which had issues are alive!
Lets hope Diner doesn't blow a new transistor in the morning. Seems to take overnight for a new issue

 

[drhex]

+1 to changing the (NV)RAM, may well be (partly) broken. Don't think the column drives will interfere with it, doesn't make a lot of sense.