What's new
By:
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

switch issues? something higher?

cooldan

cooldan

i like pizza
10 Years
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
7,097
Location
Ealing, London
i've spent the last month trying to pimp up, and at the same time to chase down any errors, in my beloved MB. this machine is going nowhere, so i want it to be as nice as it can be. i'm a total newb with any kind of restoration or mechanics, but keen to learn.



with Geoff (Calimori) I've cleaned and fixed the rollover switches, removed and cleaned the ramp, removed and replaced/cleaned all three poppers, replaced all rubbers and lots of bulbs, replaced some plastics, replaced target decals, taken apart and reassembled the Frankie table gear assembly/switches and the up/down target gear assembly/switches ........ and i feel like i'm almost there now.



last few issues are these:

1) left slingshot switches dont react (coil works just fine) = switch 51

2) rt ramp entry swtch doesn't register = switch 71

3) up/down target bank switch when bank is UP doesn't register, = switch 81



now i'm no mathematical genius, but i can see a pattern in those switches.



anyone got some advice on what to try next?

i don't have a multimeter or any idea how to use one (am willing to learn, and have one coming from ebay soon in next few days).



thanks fellas
 
Probably three seperate faults. Check whether the slingshot switches register in switch test menu. Could be a broken wire..

Does sw71 register in test mode?

Target switch bank, again check whether it registers. Normally a physical problem with target banks, Check nothing is broken underneath.

I'm not familiar with MB, ie, if these switches are optos or microswitches.
 
GrizZ' date=' post: 1694737 said:
Yep - looking at the MB switch matrix those switches are all on the same Row. Does switch 61 work (Left Loop Low) work ??



If not I would suspect a wire break after 31/41.



Or it could just be one hell of a coincidence.
Click to expand...

Sounds like good advice from the Sgt.
 
so..... are all top row switches in series in a long line on a wire then?



from where? ...........>>....11 (launch) .....>>.....21 (slam tilt) .....>>.....31 (trough eject) ...>>....41 NOT USED ...>>....

51 (left sling) ...>>.... 61(left loop) ...>>..71 (rt ramp enter) ...>>..81 (up/down bank UP) .....>>.... where does this go next?



i'm looking at the physical map of playfield switches, and not understanding. i'd have expected the linked switches to all be physically in a line, or physically all next to each other, but they're not.

[attachment=942:switch positions.jpg]



and then i'm looking at the switch matrix diagram and not understanding that either. i highlighted my problem switches in (green), but what do the bits i've highlighted in other colours mean? are these wires all under the playfield or in the backbox on the boards?



what does the (yellow) bit mean? i think J205-1 means it's on board 2, jack 5, pin 1, right? but what is there that is orange-brown, and what does it have to do with the left coin chute? or do i ignore the (yellow) far left column entirely, and the (purple) far right column too?



in that case what does the (pink) bit refer to? what is white-brown, what is on J208-1, and what is that U18-11 all about?



finally, what do those (blue) bits mean, the J and U numbers?



thanks Ive, you're a great teacher and very patient.

or thanks to anyone else who can explain all this stuff to me. all very useful learning this stuff.



[attachment=943:switch matrix.jpg]
 
cooldan' date=' post: 1694760 said:
so..... are all top row switches in series in a long line on a wire then?





Basically yes -



from where? ...........>>....11 (launch) .....>>.....21 (slam tilt) .....>>.....31 (trough eject) ...>>....41 NOT USED ...>>....

51 (left sling) ...>>.... 61(left loop) ...>>..71 (rt ramp enter) ...>>..81 (up/down bank UP) .....>>.... where does this go next?



i'm looking at the physical map of playfield switches, and not understanding. i'd have expected the linked switches to all be physically in a line, or physically all next to each other, but they're not.

View attachment 1100



and then i'm looking at the switch matrix diagram and not understanding that either. i highlighted my problem switches in (green), but what do the bits i've highlighted in other colours mean? are these wires all under the playfield or in the backbox on the boards?



what does the (yellow) bit mean? i think J205-1 means it's on board 2, jack 5, pin 1, right? but what is there that is orange-brown, and what does it have to do with the left coin chute? or do i ignore the (yellow) far left column entirely, and the (purple) far right column too?



in that case what does the (pink) bit refer to? what is white-brown, what is on J208-1, and what is that U18-11 all about?



finally, what do those (blue) bits mean, the J and U numbers?



thanks Ive, you're a great teacher and very patient.

or thanks to anyone else who can explain all this stuff to me. all very useful learning this stuff.



View attachment 1101
Click to expand...
 
cooldan' date=' post: 1694760 said:
so..... are all top row switches in series in a long line on a wire then?





BASICALLY YES - In this case Row 1 the wire you are interested in is White/Brown



from where? ...........>>....11 (launch) .....>>.....21 (slam tilt) .....>>.....31 (trough eject) ...>>....41 NOT USED ...>>....

51 (left sling) ...>>.... 61(left loop) ...>>..71 (rt ramp enter) ...>>..81 (up/down bank UP) .....>>.... where does this go next?



THE FIRST SWITCH 11 should have just one white/brown attached as it is the end of the chain. Others have 2 because they are daisy chained. You can follow the wire on to switch 21, 31 etc .....after 81 it goes to the cpu board, connector J208, pin 1 ...as you correctly identified. If there is a break in the wire then the subsequent switches won't work.





i'm looking at the physical map of playfield switches, and not understanding. i'd have expected the linked switches to all be physically in a line, or physically all next to each other, but they're not.





and then i'm looking at the switch matrix diagram and not understanding that either. i highlighted my problem switches in (green), but what do the bits i've highlighted in other colours mean? are these wires all under the playfield or in the backbox on the boards?



what does the (yellow) bit mean? i think J205-1 means it's on board 2, jack 5, pin 1, right? but what is there that is orange-brown, and what does it have to do with the left coin chute? or do i ignore the (yellow) far left column entirely, and the (purple) far right column too?



YES IGNORE these - they are direct wired switches and not part of the switch matrix



in that case what does the (pink) bit refer to? what is white-brown, what is on J208-1, and what is that U18-11 all about?



AS stated above. U18 - 11 is referring to the associated cpu chip U18 , pin/leg 11.



finally, what do those (blue) bits mean, the J and U numbers?



THE wire,board connector, and chip for each column of 8 switches







thanks Ive, you're a great teacher and very patient.



Yeah yeah whatever
rolleyes-1.gif
just get back in there and fix the damn thing
biggrin-1.png




or thanks to anyone else who can explain all this stuff to me. all very useful learning this stuff.
Click to expand...
 
cool and the gang, i'm gonna see if i can confirm your suspicions about switch 61, and then try to find the break, somewhere in the white/brown wire from trough eject switch 31 on its way towards switch 51 at the left slingshot. i'll report back.



thanks teach!



also thanks Andrew for the link, i'll read and digest it

[attachment=944:3d-pacman street painting.jpg]
 
right, Geoff is with me here, he can say what the problem was, cos i don't get it



We tested the continuity between all of the switches to find which one was first duff one. We got to find that the trough eject (opto) (31) and the others further up the chain (51, 61, 71, 81) were all not working but had continuity with each other. The rest of the opto's worked so it certainly looked like it was not the LM339's again
wink-1.png
.

The two working switches were 11 and 21, which are both at the front of the machine and all the wires go along the bottom to the back. It seemed like a good idea to reseat the connector at J208.

Then it all worked
wink-1.png
. Magic
 
Yep - always frickin connectors. First port of call with any pin issue is reseating relevant connectors.
Click to expand...



Something else to keep an eye out for is when connectors get replaced (if they burn out for example) with non standard ones as these can cause poor contact with the boards and you get issues. Has this recently on RS, but a new connector sorted it right out
smile-1.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom