Rollergames shop log

[cooldan]

OK, so i picked this up from the 64-game lot from Keith the other month, for a tidy £500, and for its first month it lived in Uttoxeter at Stormy's place. It's a game i've wanted ever since i saw one at Andy Heighway's place in the Emerald Isle a couple of years ago - once you've heard that soundtrack, you don't forget it (like with BK2K, another Steve Ritchie game from around the same period).

RG is a Williams System 11c game from June 1990, with multiball, a magnet, kickback, and 3 flippers: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2006



it's based for some curious reason on a 'roller derby' TV show where skaters in teams zoomed round a figure-of-eight track, trying to perform stunts and jumps and to attack each other and often to play out some kind of backstory involving some personal insult someone is trying to avenge or some such, all highly staged and choreographed but entertaining nonetheless. it only ran for one season, but it seems there are nerdy groups of fanboys to this day that collect the videos and attend conventions and such. so says the internet anyway. here's an example of the show:
[video=youtube;MP6xT_ThxdI]

For an idea of the gameplay, here's a good player showing it off:
[video]http://pinball.org/videos/gameplay-videos/rollergames/[/video]

So this afternoon i started work by taking lots of photos and then spending 3 hours taking loads of bits off. that's as far as i've got so far, so here's a few pictures:






problems i'm aware of so far:
*spring on plunger is too weak to get up the wall ramp - could be just needs a new tip. all rubbers will be replaced.
*the magnet doesn't work (although apparently sometimes it does). to be investigated.
*the kickback doesn't work. no idea if this is a switch thing or a coil thing or what, as all hardware seems in place.
*some bulbs are out. all will probably be replaced, as my reading tells me that the older they are, the hotter then run, and bulbs are cheap.
*balls are bit iffy, so immediately replaced so as not to make damage worse, but will be replaced with non-magnetisable balls in due course.
*some cracked plastics - i'll see if i can get hold of some replacements (any of you lot got any?)
*playfield is pretty scuffed up, including what i assume are 'swirl marks' (?) - see the pic of the girl's face for a good example.
*i'm not sure how to work the diagnostics buttons. so far i worked out that if the middle one is down, i'm in diagnostics, if it's up i'm in audits. the left one seems to increase the number (start button to select and change); the right one may be broken as it does nothing i've found yet.

more pics in next post

 

[Pudsey pinball]

Good old system 11

 

[cooldan]

question: see those posts above? how do i get them out, is there a trick to it? i removed the nut and washer from underneath the pf, but these are screwed in and there's nothing to grip. do i use a rubber band or something?



here you will notice someone has rammed a couple of screws in above the ball trough for some reason, that i will no doubt realise when/if i remove them.




unlike games i've dismantled before, this playfield is pivoted around one point. great in some respects, but less good for getting stuff off the back on the top. i had to release the playfield (it's a lot lighter than others i've 'released', intentionally or otherwise) and move it forward standing in the base and balanced a bit precariously, in order to remove the massive plastic ramp/wall formations. luckily no dramas.



and this is the final result of my afternoon's efforts.


next jobs:
get the rest of those posts and ball guides off,
remove the drop down targets for cleaning,
see what i need to detach from underneath that can be full of muck or that touches the ball,
remove the ball trough
replace sleeves in all coils
download manual to try to understand the diagnostic buttons
see what's going on with the power to the magnet
see if i can get the kickback to kick back
order replacement parts from The Legend

...and eventually....
clean the playfield
put everything back together


thanks for any useful comments or tips, or insults or suggestions ...... or whatever you like.
more to come

:loco:

 

[Pudsey pinball]

Those posts will just be tight in the playfield,I get pliers with a cloth in the jaws so the dnt chew the posts then try n ease them out,or gently tap them out from below but dnt bust the threads

 

[Wizcat]

In the past I've slipped old rubber posts over the top of those metal posts, then unscrew from above with pliers (much like Pudsey's advice)

 

[ronsplooter]

For those posts, I normally use a hammer and punch and tap them out from underneath the pf.....just don't go too heavy handed at it

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

For those posts, I normally use a hammer and punch and tap them out from underneath the pf.....just don't go too heavy handed at it

Sgt Grizz just smacks the f*ck out of them with a big hammer.....collateral damage, casualites of war and all that :smokin:

Though exercising caution is probably best

 

[Pudsey pinball]

Lol spanner fingers grizz

 

[Calimori]

Interesting to hear the many options for those posts. I have previously used the 'twist and shout' method where I use mole grips on a cloth to twist them whilst shouting angrily. On Creech I used the "hit them where it hurts method" as I knew they were not actually screwed in.

I like the looks of the ramps on this and the music is great. I hope there is a way to reduce the hairy effect on that girls face.
Is the magnet controlled by a switch?
Those extra screws do look interesting, report back on what they do. You can always reuse the solution but with something that is more original to the game.

What an bonkers show Rollergames, a cross between a rollerskating derby and what we expect from American wrestling. Though it appears to be using skaters from an actual Roller Games League, using those rules. I saw rule, the whole thing was about entertainment in an American way.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Thats some serious ball swirl action goin on there :faint2:

Some people use Magic Eraser to help remove the dirt ...but I am very wary of that stuff, too easy to start removing paint for my liking. Personally I would just give it repeated efforts with Novus 2 - its really not that abrasive - clean as best you can and live with it. Older games always have wear, thats just the way it is.

I love working on the Sys 11 machines, but yes the pivoting playfield is a major PITA when you need to access the rear of the playfield :wackoz:

 

[cooldan]

i don't mind the appearance of the swirl marks at all, in fact i find a hairy face on a woman an attractive thing.

so getting back to these posts, are they screwed in or not, does anyone know? cos if not, i'll just smack em from underneath like moles.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

They are threaded at one end, but not literally screwed thru the playfield. I have seen vid of assembly in the factory, and the guys appear to be smacking them thru the holes from the top with a hammer :eeek:

Tap gently and see how you go. Some come out easy, some are b*stards. You dont want to go *too* ape on them though as you could actually damage the top playfield as you force it out.

Its easier than it all sounds dude.

 

[cooldan]

Right, day 2:

So i managed to get all those pesky posts out, and followed up by removing all the ball guides and those railing thingies.


View attachment 882View attachment 883

Then i managed to take out the drop target assembly, the trough, and assorted metalwork gubbins and proggers. some of them i have no idea what they are. All filthy, and in some cases look as if they've had beer spilled on them, colonies of bacteria have eaten the metal, to be wiped out by plagues of lichen and insects, all of which decayed into matter. I took apart, wiped down and changed the sleeve on 12 coils, in some cases needing to replace the screws that had stripped heads either before or after my attentions.

View attachment 884View attachment 889


The only coils i've not molested now are the three in the poppers, and the three in the three flippers - these will get attention at the end. The coil in the up-kicker at The Pit, i couldn't for the life of me work out how to extract the sleeve, as i couldn't get the round thingy off the end of the plunger; and the coil with the magnet in the middle of it has no sleeve, but was inspected for any obvious problems. if anyone sees anything glaring in the pics below, please let me know - two black wires leave the magnet coil, and come in on the right side of the other photo, towards that IDC connector.

View attachment 887View attachment 888


Next up, i went for the bulbs, and found that several of them have a dodgy connection somewhere, so that the bulbs goes out if you shake the playfield, or touch the bulb, or bend the holder to move it nearer the window. annoying. more annoying was that most of the screw-in bulb-holders, those little black things that go in the green boards, had what looked like copper sulphate corrosion where the contacts were - can't be copper sulphate, i assume, but it is blue-green, just like the stuff that leaks from old batteries (but i didn't taste it for acidity). and when i was bending the little tabs to try to check connections, lots of them snapped off - see pictures below. bah!


View attachment 885View attachment 886

final issue of the day was trying to make sense of the System 11 diagnostic buttons. i downloaded the manual but must be thick or something, as i can't reliably work out how to get into what seem to be the three main sections, i.e., audits, adjustments, and diagnostics/tests. i know that the left button (of the 3) is 'advance' and that the right button (of the 3) is reset-hiscore ie is useless, and that the middle one can either be set to up or down ...... but it seems that also the button that is released by opening the coin door also has a role to play, and the start button seems to be the 'select' (akin to the right hand one on WMS that i'm familiar with). i managed to get into some music and display and lamp tests, by trial and error, but am not confident i could go back there again when i have all the coils back where they belong for some coil testing.

so my questions to the knowledgeable:
*bulbs that go out when shaken - what to do?
*bulb holders that make that greeny-blue dry crap - what to do?
*how the heck do i get around the diagnostics on a System 11?
*how do i check a coil with my multimeter? does the same apply to the magnet?
*has anyone got any old Rollergames parts they want to get rid off (for cash or beer tokens)

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Loads of top info here Dan :thumb:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11

 

[mufcmufc]

problems i'm aware of so far:
*spring on plunger is too weak to get up the wall ramp - could be just needs a new tip. all rubbers will be replaced.
*the magnet doesn't work (although apparently sometimes it does). to be investigated.
*the kickback doesn't work. no idea if this is a switch thing or a coil thing or what, as all hardware seems in place.
*some bulbs are out. all will probably be replaced, as my reading tells me that the older they are, the hotter then run, and bulbs are cheap.
*balls are bit iffy, so immediately replaced so as not to make damage worse, but will be replaced with non-magnetisable balls in due course.
*some cracked plastics - i'll see if i can get hold of some replacements (any of you lot got any?)
*playfield is pretty scuffed up, including what i assume are 'swirl marks' (?) - see the pic of the girl's face for a good example.
*i'm not sure how to work the diagnostics buttons. so far i worked out that if the middle one is down, i'm in diagnostics, if it's up i'm in audits. the left one seems to increase the number (start button to select and change); the right one may be broken as it does nothing i've found yet.

more pics in next post

Gonna have to start calling you Dan the stripper man!

Easiest thing to do with those playfields is to lift them up and over the pivot and then sit the back of the hinges on the pivot - this allows you to slide the playfield forward and is easy to work on the machine then, plus you use almost the same amount of effort as lifting then dropping the playfield into the cab but cunningly you don't then have to lift the playfield far to drop it back onto the hinges (which you will have to do from the base of the cabinet)

1. Spring is ****e agreed
2. Kickback did work fine, either a transit issue or has died a random death. Magnet never worked properly as discussed
3. Yes they're swirl marks, I did mention the wear when it first arrived but it's not really noticeable when playing
4. Diagnostics, middle up takes you into audits (have to scroll to end or turn game off to exit). Middle down puts you into tests, but then you have to raise it again once in test mode to advance.

 

[mufcmufc]

so my questions to the knowledgeable:
*bulbs that go out when shaken - what to do?
*bulb holders that make that greeny-blue dry crap - what to do?
*how the heck do i get around the diagnostics on a System 11?
*how do i check a coil with my multimeter? does the same apply to the magnet?
*has anyone got any old Rollergames parts they want to get rid off (for cash or beer tokens)

1. Lamps - could be wiring / solder connections (pins may need re-flowing) think there were only 2 out when it was here so I left it alone
2. I have bulb holders somewhere, let me know how many are required
3. See the post above, it's fairly simple
4. Put it on ohms, put a lead on each lug, if under 4 ohms, bin the coil. Same for magnet. Looking at your corrosion issues, more likely to be wiring
5. Terry S maybe?

 

[Eddie Twadds]

*bulbs that go out when shaken - what to do?

For the metal 44/47 bulb holders - a gentle squeeze with pliers all around does the trick.
For the plastic ones, push a little screwdriver behind the metal prongs to close the gap - or buy new ones.
For poor contacts on the lamp boards, reflow the solder around the socket connection.
Job done.

*bulb holders that make that greeny-blue dry crap - what to do?
Bin and replace.

 

[cooldan]

today my generator won't start, so i couldn't fix the lights, and instead decided to clean up the playfield a bit. but it got cold so i only did a half-****d job before i came back in. first i sprayed it all with foaming cleaner, let it sit for a minute, and wiped it all off with a clean cloth. that cloth is getting chucked, or at least getting a good wash.



next i squirted lots of novus 2 on it, and wiped it around, using the corner of a new cloth. i never know how much to smear on, but i still think i probably put too much on. i never know if there's enough, so the only way i can tell is by letting it dry on.




then it was too cold, and the generator still wouldn't start, so i called it a day. i suppose i should think about tackling some of those bags.....

 

[bartron]

hmmm. there are a couple of ways i would go to remove the swirls, either, use iso propanol alcohol, then a scratch remover
this is the one i use

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Meguiars-...K_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item35bff88380&_uhb=1

use it on a part of the playfield you don't see.
then the novus, next this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTOGLYM-..._Car_Care_Cleaning&hash=item564d17c98a&_uhb=1

it seals the playfield gives a great shine...
stan

 

[bartron]

I would never use magic eraser, it's too rough, between a 1000 & 1200 grit. a mirror glaze finishing paper is the lowest I use and that's 2000- 2500.
stan

 

[cooldan]

no updates for a while, as i've been focusing instead on trying to fix my generator. i'll post a few shop update pics in a bit, but first humour me by allowing me to talk about Genny: without power, i have no heat and no light to shine on my work in the garage, i can't test anything or play another game for a break, and the music on my phone battery runs down too fast. so i've been cleaning the bagfuls in the evenings, and using my usual afternoon pinball hour to try and get the bugger diagnosed and fixed, with the help of Generator Pete, a very helpful bloke who sold me this Honda EU30is a couple of years ago.

i've been very happy with it, it's as quiet as they come (quieter than a hoover), it provides clean energy for relatively cheap (about a litre an hour), and without it i'd have no way to play pinball in my non-wired garage.

Here's Pete:
[video=youtube;xscRpQSqG5Y]

i think he probably sleeps in the flat cap, he was wearing it when i met him, and he has it on in all his youtube vids. anyway, i told him what was wrong, and he had me do various things to try and work out why it won't start.



he had me check first that the choke was actually attached to the top of the engine, then i had to find and then check the spark plug, check no blockages in the air filter, locate, rotate, and drain the fuel out of the carburettor, then refill and repeat, to check that fuel was getting in there.

next up i had to remove the air filter, and squirt some petrol in the carburettor mouth to see if i could get it firing - and it did, momentarily:
[video=youtube;LISF4_fz36Y]

while i had the air filter off, he told me to locate and clean the fuel sediment cup, so i did that. it was quite fun learning new stuff. ok so now he knew that the problem was either a blocked exhaust (likely) or a blocked main jet (unlikely, as i use it regularly)...... my next task was dismantling the back of the machine to detach the engine from the exhaust to see if it now works. at this point he took a medical history and established that it didn't just fail to start all at once, but was a progressive failure over a few weeks, with it first needing the choke to be out for ages before it would allow me to put it back in, then refusing to run unless the choke stayed out. he said this was pretty classic behaviour for a blocked 'spark arrester'.

first i had to and buy some metric spanners and sockets, as all mine are imperial measurements for the pins, my lifetime's only ever mechanical explorations. i took out 4 bolts and got the back off. another four bolts to get the grille off. four more to get the handle out, and another six to remove the baseplate and a proggy-thing so i could remove the fibre cover on the engine/exhaust.



i was nearly there, so close to my goal, but i couldn't get the final 8mm nut off in its tricky location, and had to call it a day, until i can get to Halfords tomorrow morning on my way to get the bike serviced & MOT'd, and pick up an 8mm "cranked ring spanner".

so there we leave today's lesson in generator servicing. if it runs ok with the exhaust gases able to escape without going through the muffler, i have my answer, and apparently will just need to ream out all the crap and crud in the exhaust. then apparently i just chuck the spark arrester away, and don't bother to replace it, as Generator Pete says it's a waste of time that Honda only included to keep the Yanks happy.



well i enjoyed documenting this, even if it makes boring reading. it gave me something to do while half-watching the footy on telly. i'll put some cleaned-up Rollergames parts pics up next.

 

[cooldan]

some before and after pics:







and an after pic with no before:



and finally a shot of the light bouncing off my newly-cleaned playfield - thanks Gaz



the playfield has been around the block, and will never be perfect, but i'm plenty happy with how it looks after a rub with Novus2. i may give it another round with Novus, then i will probably wax it as i have some Millwax, and a little tub of that guitar wax i've not tried yet - before i start putting stuff back on. a clean playfield, then new balls, bulbs, rubbers, and cleaned everything, i'm sure i'll notice the difference.

i suppose i'd better go and tackle some more of those bags of bits. as soon as i have power, i want to be able to get busy reassembling.

laters, pinheads

 

[replicas]

Nice and clean, did you get rid of that smell of cheese ?

 

[cooldan]

no, i'm not cleaning the lockdown bar, as i'm sure it's value will be enhanced by it's smearing of TVWB nut sweat

[video=youtube;Q1dKsjfo0xQ]

 

[Calimori]

Good work on the Genny, pleased to see you have got stuck in with it. There will be nothing left for me to fix at this rate.

 

[cooldan]

well i thought i had it going.

the exhaust and muffler seemed to be clear. Geoff even gave me some help attacking the carburettor - checked fuel getting in. took it off. blew through a jet. took out spark plug. checked then replaced spark plug. float fine then no good. then after lost pin was put it back, float fine again. fuel noticed leaking over the top. took it off. 'flossed' main jet with some copper wire. put it back. starting now. not sure if perhaps better on manual (pull-cord) than electric (switch) starter? still not working. took carb off again, removed and flossed jet again...... we stopped short of following Generator Pete's full instructions to boil the jet in bleach, as Geoff missus was home and may have called off the engagement if she'd spotted us, but seemed to be going ok. so i got it back home and put the bits back together and started it up and put it on full load and all was well for half an hour or so .... then it stopped. it *might* have run out of petrol, i'm not sure. i topped it right up and tried again but by then it wasn't interested.

so it's at Honda now, getting a service.




so i've been well fed up and haven't done much on the Rollergames at all:

*balanced it up with the hinges behind the pivots as Nick recommended (much better, cheers matey).
*finished cleaning all the bags and took them all down to the garage.
*ordered some bits and pieces for it.
*tried that magic eraser for the first time, and been a bit scared by it's ability to take some paint off (!) and leave a funny white residue. more respect due next time, i'll be a lot more careful.
*put some metal rails and the trough back on.
*bought new stickers for the drop-down targets.
*noticed how shabby the leaf switches are, in the slingshots, and wish i'd ordered replacements for them.
*waxed it, with that guitar wax stuff, then wiped the wax off again. i wish i knew what i was doing with this wax, it can't be just about wiping on and wiping off - but i can't be ****d to rub away at it with a cloth, and i haven't got any clever polishing tools, and anyway the playfield looks like it's been around the block in some areas.

 

[cooldan]

 

[replicas]

How bloody cold is it in the tiki hut this weather ?
It must be feckin freezing.

 

[cooldan]

it's miserable in there. i can't play without power, obviously, but even if i had power, i'd be nut-span-frozen in there even after i put the hot blower on. a really good game always gets me a sweat on, like my recent new AFM record (just before genny died) of 15B (loads of extra balls awarded). apparently at the recent championships in Holland, some good players got 20BN and even 38BN on tournament settings.

[video=youtube;ISJ0VsnCvDo]

 

[replicas]

Feeling your pain Pal,
You need one of those gas heaters like a jet engine. Now that will keep ya warm.