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Quarterly tournaments - maybe!

Spadge

Spadge

Registered
5Years
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
1,814
Location
Wakefield
So am planning to host probably quarterly tournaments at my place (offices with 14 pins) as I can't really commit to a league given my work/personal commitments. These would likely be a weekend day and would be near Wakefield, West Yorks, centre of the country and accessed off M62/M1/A1.

I wanted to ask a few questions for general feedback.

1) how many would be interested in such a thing?
2) what rules would people prefer?
3) would it be OK to ask for a tourney entrance fee, to cover food & drink, trophies, potential prizes?
4) would people find it handy to organise a small equipment market of sorts
5) what pins to avoid or have proved great for compettion? Obviously pins such as LOTR and others may be excluded for time sake.

General feedback appreciated :)

The pins I have currently are in my signature.
 
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Would definitely be interested in supporting and attending.

The more people organising comps the better IMHO.

The formats which have been most favourably received from my comps have been those where the majority of people play a lot of games, they're not knocked out after a few games and then need to wait around for the 'better' players to finish. Could be a league format, round robin, double strike, or a combination. I would think at least 6 games guaranteed should be the minimum.

No problem paying an entrance fee, it's expected. Why should the organiser end up out of pocket? Any profit made can either go to charity, be used to fund further comps, spare parts, or go in your pocket. I have no problem with any of them.

I think it could be a struggle to entice a vendor to bring their whole range to such a small comp, but maybe if people pre-ordered everyone's order could be delivered at once and collected from there.

Wise choice to start small with separate one off comps, rather than committing to a multi day league format - you may lose your enthusiasm half way through. I'd suggest organise a single comp, if it goes well, it can then be a repeat comp every few months.

If you need any help whatsoever, setting format, negotiating the IFPA website, scoring, writing spreadsheets etc. drop me a PM - happy to help.
 
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Hi, yes would be interested and happy to support and pay an entrance fee as league would be difficult for me also living in 2 locations.


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Wayne J said:
Would definitely be interested in supporting and attending.

The more people organising comps the better IMHO.

The formats which have been most favourably received from my comps have been those where the majority of people play a lot of games, they're not knocked out after a few games and then need to wait around for the 'better' players to finish. Could be a league format, round robin, double strike, or a combination. I would think at least 6 games guaranteed should be the minimum.

No problem paying an entrance fee, it's expected. Why should the organiser end up out of pocket? Any profit made can either go to charity, be used to fund further comps, spare parts, or go in your pocket. I have no problem with any of them.

I think it could be a struggle to entice a vendor to bring their whole range to such a small comp, but maybe if people pre-ordered everyone's order could be delivered at once and collected from there.

Wise choice to start small with separate one off comps, rather than committing to a multi day league format - you may lose your enthusiasm half way through. I'd suggest organise a single comp, if it goes well, it can then be a repeat comp every few months.

If you need any help whatsoever, setting format, negotiating the IFPA website, scoring, writing spreadsheets etc. drop me a PM - happy to help.
Click to expand...

Cheers, great feedback.
 
Would be keen & the location is perfect as I'm not far away at all.

Probably twice a year is the best balance for me, but acutely aware others have more spare time and flexibility for the quarterly approach.
 
yeah, I'd be up for attending, and dont mind paying entrance fees.

I'm up for as many comps as possible, the theory being that if I enter enough I might actually get a trophy one day!!
 
I'd probably come over if I was available. There's definitely space thru the year for some more UK events. Happy to pay a fee.
 
I am up for it. A trip to shakey. It is a great location as you should get a fair few of the Midlands and Northern nuttas turning up as you are pretty much on the border of these league areas.

Perfectly reasonable to charge entrance fees. Wear and tear and all that.

I think you should try to organise this so that folk get a good few competitive games regardless of their skill level. And try to avoid the scenario where folk are waiting around for long ball time games to finish. Plenty of folk like long ball time games, but what they do not like is being bottle-necked by them.

There was a league format thing at 8 bit flip a couple of years ago that I thought worked quite well. This would be the easiest to do. All you need is a score sheet and pen on each machine.

Or maybe do different formats each time ?

Meet 1 - split folk into leagues for head to head. Then semis and a final. Like the recent world cup

Meet 2 - league play where everyone plays each game

Meet 3 - some sort of high score format where folk with high scores go into a knock out.

I would suggest that you keep it flexible so that you can accommodate numbers

You have a great line up of games. Whatever you organise, folk will have a great time and very much appreciate your efforts.

Good on you.

D
 
Yes I would definitely be up for it Martyn and agree with Wayne and David's comments about format

I run the Northern branch of the UK League, and also the Big Flip at 8bitflip and other comps so would be happy to come over and chat/help out as you start to firm things up.

Problem games for competitions (if serious) are those with large random awards which can't be turned off, and those where locked balls can be stolen by another player in multiplayer games - but I wouldn't have thought that applied to any of your games?

Important to get the tilts set right - too harsh and there will be a lot of frustration, too lenient and the more physical players get a big advantage!

I think its right you charge an entrance fee.
Our league meets currently cost £5 of which £2 goes into the central pot for trophies and the league finals costs, and £3 to the host towards food costs.
Most people felt that was very good value and were happy to pay more

David
 
Thanks for the feedback David, very useful. I'm still pottering about with my machines and weekends are full, but I definitely want to do something and hit the ground running too.
 
Also thanks very much for the CFTBL loan, machine wasn't for me at all. Also many thanks to Barry for sorting my itch out :D
 
What's the closest to Norfolk for such meets, or where would I find this info?
 
UK Pinball League has a few regions

For you it would probably be the south East or Midlands

ukpinballleague.co.uk
 
DAD said:
Yes I would definitely be up for it Martyn and agree with Wayne and David's comments about format

I run the Northern branch of the UK League, and also the Big Flip at 8bitflip and other comps so would be happy to come over and chat/help out as you start to firm things up.

Problem games for competitions (if serious) are those with large random awards which can't be turned off, and those where locked balls can be stolen by another player in multiplayer games - but I wouldn't have thought that applied to any of your games?

Important to get the tilts set right - too harsh and there will be a lot of frustration, too lenient and the more physical players get a big advantage!

I think its right you charge an entrance fee.
Our league meets currently cost £5 of which £2 goes into the central pot for trophies and the league finals costs, and £3 to the host towards food costs.
Most people felt that was very good value and were happy to pay more

David
Click to expand...

Still thinking about this :-)

With regards the score stuff for tournaments, only issue with my games would be - probably use TAF standard ROM and not gold, the mansion awards are a little bonkers. On LOTR not use the mystery award, although the pin isn’t really useful at tourneys given you get a lot of game time.

I’d say whitewater, twilight zone, Adams family, walking dead, fish tales are the pick for tournaments given average ball time.

I’d avoid lotr, monster bash, scared stiff, medieval madness and attack from Mars in particular as they are “softer” games and someone half decent could be on a while :-)

Machines “somewhere in the middle” would be Indiana Jones, Stng, AC/DC, TOTAN.

What’s generally considered the top 3/4 machines in a tourney?
 
Yes would definitely avoid lotr if you want to get to bed before dawn , and I agree about TAF gold.

All the others you mention regularly get used in tournaments including the "softer" ones, just make them steep, fast and with wide outlanes! All 4 of those you describe as soft featured in the league finals recently and game times were not long in the main

I'm not sure I would say there is a top 3/4 tournament machines, there tends to be a lot of variation. Probably the games I have seen most used historically have been Getaway and Indy500, but even then not by a large margin. (Would be interesting if someone did a study of the games used in all tournament finals in a year)

I'm holding the first league meet of the year at mine next Sunday if you are interested in coming along.

David
 
Spadge said:
What’s generally considered the top 3/4 machines in a tourney?
Click to expand...

AFM, MM, MB, TAF

Then:
SS, AC/DC, ST:TNG, TOTAN, TZ, WH2O, FT, TWD, IJ, TOM, LOTR

Easy games can be made a lot harder - you can make them play faster by making them steeper, polished and new rubber, settings (tournament mode, hard or extra hard, no extra balls, 3 ball game), etc.
 
Turn extra balls off - for games with tournament settings enable them - boot LOTR out - the rest are fine (even the gold on TAF in my view). Read the PAPA guidelines on Tilt - as I think it’s very helpful. In US comps newer sterns are more prevalent but all you games are regularly in tournaments. Check out youtube for monster bash and medieval madness in papa Pinball finals - even the mighty struggle with those alleged softer games!

Spend time on a briefing at the start and write it down so you don’t forget anything! And remind folks that enjoying the tournament is why we play - some folks don’t half get stressed out!

Good luck with it!

Neil
 
To iterate what's already been said.

TAF Gold is not a suitable game due to the random awards being so much of a game-changer.
LOTR 'can' play long, but with a bit of tweaking of the software can be made tournament ready. Safer to remove it though.

ALL of the other games are perfectly suited for tournament play, except maybe TOTAN, with the software bug in it you can have games lasting hours!
There's no need to try and make games super hard to try and artificially reduce ball times. There's nothing worse than a game becoming who gets the skill shot or a lucky bounce rather than being able to play the game as intended.
You're probably also over compensating how long the games will play, based on your experience with them. Don't forget that the vast majority of players will be playing the game for the very first time (or possibly after a game or 2 of practice beforehand) that's the biggest leveller and reducer of game times.
I'm assuming you've already got your games set up so that they play well and don't throw the ball straight down the middle too much, so YOU can enjoy them. Assuming that's the case: give the games a good polish/wax, turn extra balls off, tournament settings on and that should be good enough. It'll also mean that you don't have to return the games to the way you currently have them.
Making games steeper does NOT equate to making them harder. On steeper games it is easier to trap the ball, there is less side to side movement, thus reducing the risk of losing the ball at the sides, the ball runs truer over the playfield, etc. etc. It also means the flippers have to be near perfect to make ramps. I'd much prefer to play a game set too steep rather than too shallow.
Generally speaking, the vast majority of games were designed to be played at 6.5' keep it at that.
 
TAF gold disrupts what was ordinarily a reasonably well balanced scorer. Having a mode start give you an automatic 15 or 20mil is huge, especially if it's an aggressive machine with low ball times.
TOTAN I would only run with a house rule of disqualification for using the glitch and even then with hesitation because ball times are higher thanks to the shooting star ball savers. It's unlikely that anyone will trigger the glitch accidentally and it can be avoided if someone is about to do so.
I agree AFM can last far too long but MM tuned right with extra balls off is really not that much of a problem, as the castle shot and the trolls make center drains more likely than AFM.

There's not many games out there that you can't get playing well for tournament play with correct setup and settings; some games you actually don't want to make any harder than they already are, as Wayne said. And doubling his point about table angle - on many games a shallow angle means outlane drains. F14 wants 7' out of the box, steeper than average - any shallower and it is completely unplayable
 
if you are hosting the world championship battle of the planet master of arms pinball combo then yes do TAF over TAF Gold.

If you are having an an occasional shoot out with some pinball buddies every quarter I honestly wouldn't worry about it... if nothing else - +if+ it gives a random advantage you can rip that player for it for some time on it :D - having more randomness in pinball makes it more enjoyable!

Neil
 
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