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Outhole solenoid Dead on BSD

marcoos_1

marcoos_1

Registered
5Years
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
208
Location
Glasgow-ish
The outhole kicker on BSD has just stopped working. I ordered a coil, but the resistance reading on the new one is the same as the current one, so I haven't changed it yet. My electrical skills are still "under development" but when I set the solenoid onto test mode, I don't get any form of voltage reading when it should be pulsing. If I do the same test on another coil (I.e. plunger) I can see my test meter reading as it pulses/activates during test mode.

So far I have checked all fuses with a test meter and they are all good. Also, every other coil/solenoid is working fine.

I have also given all the connectors a push to make sure everything is seated etc.

Open to suggestions...........
 
Have you tested the switch? Assuming you mean the kicker that moves the ball along the trough once it's drained? There's a series of switches along the trough so suggest you test them using the switch edge test and see if it's registering
 
Can easily be a failure of the driver transistors in the backbox rather than the coil - it can happen, although usually there's a contributing factor.

https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Solenoid_Driver_Board_Issues
Section 5.7 may be useful if this is the case.

The page has a wealth of information that will be useful in general, but in general, my advice is that for coil failures, you will quite often end up looking at the electronics in the backbox too, as often as the playfield itself.

Unless, of course, a wire has fell off or something as simple as that - happens quite a lot on pinballs, actually, don't laugh! Dry solder joints and general shock vibrations can break wires at weak spots like solder joints... especially old, stiff wires...
 
Thanks for the advice so far, I will look at this today. One question ref checking the switch.......would that stop the solenoid working in test mode?
 
Hello, Mark,

Your use of the solenoid test eliminates the outhole switch, well probably. A coil winding energises when its ground return circuit is completed by the driver transistor (or a relay in some cases). That's provided it has a live feed at its 'front end' - do any other coils fed on the same fuse have a wire broken off? The old-school test of whether a coil is live is to momentarily connect its return side, with the unique coloured and usually thinner wire, to an earth such as the braid inside the cabinet, using a length of wire. This by-passes the return wiring and drive transistor, and shows if the supply side and coil are okay. The same jumper wire can be used to earth (again, only for a moment) the metal tab of the relevant drive transistor on the main circuit board; successful operation of the coil when doing this proves the return wire and connector(s) to the circuit board/transistor, but leaves the result that the problem is with the transistor or its associated components.
 
marcoos_1 said:
Thanks for the advice so far, I will look at this today. One question ref checking the switch.......would that stop the solenoid working in test mode?
Click to expand...
No, shouldn't affect that. I missed that bit in your post( in my defence I was watching Die Hard) 😁
 
OK, this is a great help as I really feel like I am learning here! I have checked the manual and fuse 104 powers solenoids 9-16. All solenoids work well on test mode (apart from knocker and this outhole one now - but I don't know if knocker ever worked so I am discounting that at the moment). Can't see any loose wires on solenoids 9-16.

I then got suggested length of wire and momentarily earthed the thin return wire to earth. The coil fires instantly and strong.

I'm kinda nervous going near my boards to find the correct transistor......but I shall go and consult the manual.......gulp!

I take it I have to be careful to get the correct leg/side on the transistor?

Thanks again to all for your help.
 
sounds like it’s the transistor then, do the test as stated above. ie ground the metal tab of the power transistor momentarily
 
Ped said:
Have you tested the switch? Assuming you mean the kicker that moves the ball along the trough once it's drained? There's a series of switches along the trough so suggest you test them using the switch edge test and see if it's registering
Click to expand...

Ped said:
No, shouldn't affect that. I missed that bit in your post( in my defence I was watching Die Hard) 😁
Click to expand...
Lol....forgiven. A true Christmas classic! (although some would probably argue that!)
 
OK, a bit more progress. I did the earth test on the metal tab of Q46 and the coil fired great. I'm guessing this means the transistor is gubbed (or something else?)

Is there anything else you reckon I should be doing in the way of tests, or just get this board out and sent to someone for repair?
 
So it’s either the power transistor or something further upstream that is faulty. it’s usually the power transistor. you could take the board out and test the transistor, or just replace it anyway. or send it to a board repairer
 
Is there any way I can tell if its just the transistor of if it is something elsewhere now?

I would be tempted to try and replace it if I knew for sure that's what it was.........but not too sure of my soldering skills!
 
The knocker not working may be a clue. Thats solenoid 7. Outhole is solenoid 15.
15 minus 7 = 8 . That usually points towards a bad address line from the cpu.
Simple solution usually. Reseat the short grey ribbon cable between the cpu and power driver.
If that doesnt solve it, switch off and push home the square socketed chip on the cpu by pressing firmly around the edges with your thumb. You'll here it creak into position.
 
Thanks Andy N - I will try that today. I've sent you an email ref board repair on this, but will obviously try your suggestions first and let you know.

Thanks for the info,

Mark.
 
John Beveridge said:
Good news Mark, Andy knows his stuff alright !

Now i can come over and beat your high score !

Cheers,

John.
Click to expand...
Damn......I should have kept that quiet!

Youre welcome anytime as you know, although I'm still cursing that high score you left on my Roadshow!!!!! That will be my holiday mission....
 
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