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New member with old pintable

hiflyer

Registered
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
11
Location
Essex
Hi, I just bought a Williams Magic City which has been stored for a while. I've spent years restoring jukeboxes and felt like cutting my teeth on something new (well pretty old actually being built in 1967). I know nothing about pintables but am keen to learn. Is there such a thing as a 'workshop' manual? I've got a schematic but they are only any use if you know where the components are located. A wiring diagram would be so much better. The box seems to be complete and the transformer is working as it should. When switched on the playfield and backboard lights are on so the 6v circuit is OK. I don't seem to be getting power to the playfield solenoids though so nothing there is operating. All fuses are OK. Any ideas? Also how do you set it up for free play? Any help will be gratefully received.
 
best advice is to google the machine as much as possible also youtube videos are handy. I've never had an em but a friend once told me the the trick with em's is to keep every contact clean - yes there's lot's but i can't rely say as like said I've not worked on one before. tho this forum is a great source of info too!!
 
best advice is to google the machine as much as possible also youtube videos are handy. I've never had an em but a friend once told me the the trick with em's is to keep every contact clean - yes there's lot's but i can't rely say as like said I've not worked on one before. tho this forum is a great source of info too!!
Thanks for your reply. You're right about the number of contacts! Better get cleaning then. Cheers!
 
I have contact cleaning strips and use them with a spray cleaning fluid for stubborn dirt. Sometimes if really bad they need a light rub with 1500 grade wet and dry paper. Got a lot more contacts on this than the average jukebox though!
 
Hi, I just bought a Williams Magic City which has been stored for a while. I've spent years restoring jukeboxes and felt like cutting my teeth on something new (well pretty old actually being built in 1967). I know nothing about pintables but am keen to learn. Is there such a thing as a 'workshop' manual? I've got a schematic but they are only any use if you know where the components are located. A wiring diagram would be so much better. The box seems to be complete and the transformer is working as it should. When switched on the playfield and backboard lights are on so the 6v circuit is OK. I don't seem to be getting power to the playfield solenoids though so nothing there is operating. All fuses are OK. Any ideas? Also how do you set it up for free play? Any help will be gratefully received.
Where are you?
I have a lot of EM games and plenty of experience fixing them. You would be welcome to visit me for a chat and a basic introduction to fixing. I'm near Huddersfield. David
 
By the way, I would not start out by cleaning contacts. If you don't know what you are doing you are more likely to introduce new faults. Beware of using flammable contact cleaner too - EM games produce big sparks which can ignite flammable sprays and cause fires (see section 1f here:

If nothing is happening are there any credits on the game? If not, rotate the credit wheel gently to add some and then try the start button. To convert the game to free play locate the switch on the credit unit which open at zero credits and jumper it permanently closed.

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I should also have said that the document linked in the previous post is the best "workshop manual" there is, together with the support of hundreds of enthusiasts on the Internet here, on Pinside, and on rec. games. pinball
 
Where are you?
I have a lot of EM games and plenty of experience fixing them. You would be welcome to visit me for a chat and a basic introduction to fixing. I'm near Huddersfield. David
DAD, I am in Essex so not too close to you. Thanks for the offer. If I get desperate I may make the trip! Thanks for the other advice too. I will take it on board. You can see I am new to this as I referred to my 'Pintable' Which is what we called them when I was a lad. I see I should be using the term 'pinball' now. We used to go to a local cafe in the sixties to play on the 'pinnies'. Great days!
 
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DAD, I am in Essex so not too close to you. Thanks for the offer. If I get desperate I may make the trip! Thanks for the other advice too. I will take it on board. You can see I am new to this as I referred to my 'Pintable' Which is what we called them when I was a lad. I see I should be using the term 'pinball' now. We used to go to a local cafe in the sixties to play on the 'pinnies'. Great days!
Where abouts in Essex are you based? I'd be happy to come and take a look at it and see if we can get the old girl back on her feet and running for you
 
I’ve fixed a couple of EM’s and find it incredibly satisfying. As others have said, watch YouTube videos. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the same game, a lot of the circuitry and mechanisms is very similar for things like credits and score reels.

Safety note. If you are working on the game with the power on be VERY careful. Unlike modern games, EM’s have a lot of exposed high voltages.
 
Safety note. If you are working on the game with the power on be VERY careful. Unlike modern games, EM’s have a lot of exposed high voltages

And often weren't earthed, either. I found that circuits using mains (or 'line', as the yankees call it) voltage tend to have plastic insulation rather than fabric.

The schematic is the closest thing provided to a wiring diagram. As I heard it, they're drawn as a snapshot, showing the machine having started a game, with the 1st ball served out, before being turned off.

As a basic pointer, an 'S.U' is a Step Unit, those meccano-looking things with a toothed ratchet wheel. Used for number of Credits, Ball in Play, and other features, e.g. Match/00-90.
A Sequence or Relay Bank is a frame of connected relays, with a large reset solenoid. This game will have one for the M-A-G-I-C-*-C-I-T-Y spellout feature.
The Motor Panel mounted to the floor of the cabinet houses the transformer, individual (and often banked) relays as well as the score (and sometimes additional) motor(s).
The Insert Panel in the backbox contains the score units and their control relays, credit counter, score adjustments and ball in play unit. Is this last unit gummed up? If it fails to reset during the start sequence, the playfield would be left without 25v power, even to serve the ball, which while being thrown across the return operates a switch to step the b/i/play unit to '1'. The final ball draining steps the unit to its end, setting off the Game Over relay and cutting off the playfield.

And in my reckoning you may use whatever term you wish. Pintable, pinball, flipper, pinnie, it's immaterial.
 
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all i can add is take your time. study the schematic and then locate the part on the machine. either in the cabinet, under the playfield or in the back box. eventually the schematic will “come to life” in your mind as you bit by bit figure out how the machine works. it’s the mist rewarding thing about EMs.

also @Jay Walker and @DAD and @astyy are the people to listen to. all helped me a lot with my ems. i too knew nothing a couple of years ago.

good luck and enjoy.


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Many thanks to you all for your helpful responses. I am going to give this a go. I have already noticed that there is 240v flying around particularly at the front in the coin mech area. Interesting that the person I bought it from has used it for many years with a two core mains wire and NO EARTH!
 
Many thanks to you all for your helpful responses. I am going to give this a go. I have already noticed that there is 240v flying around particularly at the front in the coin mech area. Interesting that the person I bought it from has used it for many years with a two core mains wire and NO EARTH!
That's the way they all were manufactured and supplied pretty well right the way up to the arrival of solid state games - Electrical safety standards were very different until not that long ago.

I've often had a mild tingle from older games, but in 55 years of involvement with the hobby have fortunately never seen or heard a report of a player outside a closed machine being killed or seriously injured by electric shock from one
(no doubt someone will be able to point me to one now I've said that!)
There is typically 30 - 35v on the lockdown bar/siderails of an unearthed game, but because the two cores are not differentiated on the original wiring it is possible for two games side by side to be wired oppositely creating a 70v potential difference between them

Gottlieb are worse on electrical safety than Williams - their coin door has mains voltage switches on it which you push closed with a metal start button.
The only thing that protects you is a thin strip of insulating "fish paper" which, over the years, can wear and develop a small hole.
I've had a nasty shock from one of these and would always recommend fitting a new fish paper strip (or an alternative method of starting the game).
See section 3k of the Pinrepair document I linked in the earlier post for more info and pictures on this

If you are fitting a three core cable and internal earthing the manufacturers method, and the one you will see referred to online, is to attach the outgoing earth wire to the transformer frame (via the securing nuts) and then radiate out from there to the exposed metal parts.
I had a significant problem with this with one of my machines - the outgoing connection failed and there was significant voltage on the transformer frame (I'm told this is because old transformers "leak" voltage) which was then fed to every exposed metal part via the earthing I had put in, making the machine more dangerous than in it's original form.
Since that experience, and in conversation with knowledgeable others, I now attach the outgoing earth wire to a central distribution point screwed into the wood mechanism board on the base of the machine, and don't put in any connection with the transformer frame (for which I have not seen any logic for in the first place)

For our shows we insulate all exposed metal parts, including the legs (via the leg plates)

Please note that I have no electrical training and would defer to the more informed opinion of someone who has if they should contradict me

For the record, although Giacomo at Pinball Creative produced some fabulously beautiful restorations (at equally fabulous prices), on a couple of occasions I had reason to doubt the depth of his knowledge on the electrical side so I would not go solely by any advice he may give.
 
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