New Cars Will Ruin Folk Unless They are Loaded

[DRD]

As many on here are into loving and maintaining old tech, you might find this interesting/ quietly terrifying. It is based on actual insurance data.

Search youtube for "Real Reason Why Everyone is Keeping Their 15-Year-Old Cars"

The video is one of many highlights what many of us have slowly realising - modern cars are unreliable money pits with massive, frequent repair bills. As they become 5/ 10 years old average folk will both be able to afford to run them.

I bought My VW biturbo California new in 2012. I have done 85k miles in it. The engine suffered complete failure, almost certainly due to [faulty EGR cooler]. This fault became well known but only hit the forums when the cars had done 60k miles plus and were well outside the warranty period. By this stage it's too late and you are sat on a ticking bomb.

The solution is a new crated engine and c 10k down the pan. There is no such thing as a good used engine - any would be a massive gamble.

This is not a rare scenario. Certain manufacturers/ eras/ engines/ capacities have widely known problems. Wet belt engines are shocking, Porsche 911, Land Rover Ingenium, Mazda Skyaktiv, Ford Ecoboost (aka Ecoboom) .......

I would never buy any car with an engine thay has not been on the market for less than 5 years.

So with my VW in hospital I had to hire a van to move some stuff. A 2025 Ford Transit. The electric window motor failed at below 10k miles. I was assaulted by continuous warning beeps - you are falling asleep warning, speed limit exceeded, lane change warning. You can't turn all this stuff off, it is plain dangerous being distracted every 10 minutes like this. It was also driving my passenger insane.

My reaction has been to hunt down and buy a 15 year petrol manual Honda Accord Estate 2.4 i-VTEC, 1 owner, FSH, 42k miles.

Leather/ dual climate/ front plus rear parking/ rear multilink suspension/ integrated phone/ cruise/ heated seats/ multi cd/ ipod .... Every single thing works and it feels like a 20k miles 3yr car.

Stuff like this - designed for reliability - is still out there but becoming scarce and prices are rising.

 

[Gonzo]

Funnily enough, we just hunted down a 2013 VTEC for my girlfriend . . . she loves it.

I have a 2025 transit and it does beep all the time to be fair but you can switch it off.

That said, I have a Tesla and it's brilliant, no oil, the brake pads hardly get worn because the car slows itself down. Regular software updates, very little to worry about with two electric motors and pretty much zero maintenance.

 

[Sam C]

I have had a 2015 Ford Fiesta for the last 9 years only just over 60k miles and have no intention of getting rid of it anytime soon. I keep it well maintained and it still runs and drives well. Do beware with Ford's of this era, every 10 years the wet belt has to be done (some people recommend 5 if you drive them hard) and is expensive. I started at a Ford Dealership who wanted 2k... eventually got it done for just over £800. Otherwise cracking little car £20 a year to road tax, cheap to insure and drives great.

 

[Paul R Owen]

Funnily enough, we just hunted down a 2013 VTEC for my girlfriend . . . she loves it.

I have a 2025 transit and it does beep all the time to be fair but you can switch it off.

That said, I have a Tesla and it's brilliant, no oil, the brake pads hardly get worn because the car slows itself down. Regular software updates, very little to worry about with two electric motors and pretty much zero maintenance.

@Adrian Hufton

 

[Markedkiller78]

Not only are you dealing with the lottery of how reliable a new car is, you’re pretty much tied to the main dealers. Some are brilliant others are atrociously bad.

At least with an older car, you can use an Indy garage, that actually trades on its reputation / quality of its work.

The Audi dealership in Glasgow (lookers) is one of the worst I’ve ever dealt with. They’re only interested in lease sales and service plans. They actively avoid or even refuse to carry out warranty work as they get paid a lower labour rate.

It’s so bad I’m done with VAG cars altogether. No one will want to read pages of me whinging, but locally, it’s down to VAG hiding behind the main dealers incompetence as an excuse not cover repairs.

They suggested I take the car to another main dealer, 50 miles away

Rather than waste months or years of my time going to the ombudsman to get them to pay for a warranty repair of a well documented design flaw. I traded the car in at a massive loss.

 

[Tony]

The business model isn’t to build something that lasts, it’s to get you on the hook and keep you there!
If you buy or lease a car, you now have to pay for speed camera/ map updates etc yearly? They want you to have a service plan that ties you to their dealers?
They all now work off computer chips that require plugging in for diagnostics, that will all be outdated in a few years?
It’s not looking good for second hand buyers, as stated earlier they could easily end up with expensive repair bills that may not make economic sense.
Currently we are living the 2015 dream, and a company car ( someone else carrying the risk)
And don’t get me started on the price of new cars? Where do people think the current flux of Chinese cars will be in a few years? Any one want to gamble on a secondhand one in a few years???

 

[Fantazia2]

@Adrian Hufton

Triggers Tesla.

 

[Calimori]

As always, I can see the pro's and the con's to the current way cars work.

New cars work much better, until they don't. By having sensors to measure everything, you can get a easier driving experience.. Everyone may not want lane assist, self parking, and auto speed limiting but a lot of people do and by having those things it takes the stress out of driving. My partner for one would never go back, which is an issue for me. My 50 year old car with absolute basic tech, not even a radio. It will run rough and can brake slightly sideways after a winter but it will run.
My 10 year old VW Golf has a lot of great"features" but is becoming harder to keep running.

I use VCDS ODBC reader to diagnose issues and it is clear is that the modules to do all the cruise control, stop start, auto park breaking and tyre pressures are using a basic ABS sensor. It makes sense, one sensor to measure the wheel is rotating, reduce wiring looms and sensor costs.
When that fails (and it will because it is in terrible conditions, gets hot, cold, dry and wet and it was made with a life expectancy of >5 years), your car will light up like a christmas tree. 8 different modules all complain and make the car worrying to drive as basic features such as the hand brake won't apply as it is electronic.
Two weeks ago, this happened and after reading the output from the scan I changed the left rear sensor as that looked like the source or the domino effect of the modules all complaining.
Car worked fine for two weeks but yesterday the same modules all complain but this time, it is saying the sensors are incompatible, which is nonsense as the right one is the original fitment and never complained about being incompatible for 10 years.
And this leads to the next issue. The internet is full of people who have suffered before you and shared their experience, but it is also full of wannabes fulling it up with rubbish. And it with the number of strange error combinations increase, it seems that there are few DIY mechanics. The advice now seems to be to fix each failed part in order, racking up new sensors, new modules, new wiring looms.

A MK2 Golf had electronics, but there were a lot less for the combinations to not be learnt. A MK4 Golf had more, but still it felt like I could learn it. A MK7 feels like the combinations are too much for the internet to be able to share them all.

I don't know if this means I won't buy another 'modern' car, or maybe get rid of them earlier, or better still, have spares lying around, so I can go back to the day where at least 1 of my fleet was working.

 

[kev a]

Always preferred older cars, 90s to late 00s was peak for me, Brought my current Dacia brand new 10 years ago for 6k, essentially late 90s underpinnings and engine.

Without wanting to tempt fate its been utterly reliable, purposely went for the very basic model which had to be built to order as they sold so few of them, sadly the new model is based on more modern platform and is filled with nannying beeps and electronic interference crap, with a price hike to match Think I will hold onto this one until it rusts to nothing.

 

[M4carp]

Just be careful what you choose, some crazy road tax charges with some older cars Pre March 2001 isn't too bad though, then you got the historic 40 year plus which is free.

Sent this to my bro-in-law who has a garage to try and get someone to sell him their Audi TT cheap as I want an engine and box to put in my MR2

New cars are a nightmare to fix yourself but what can you do

 

[Calimori]

I think the Audi TT 1.8T is cheaper that that, the 225 stock one is and we have seen high numbers from a few sensible changes to those. I had 270 from an 1.8T from a Golf, so perfect fun in a MR2.
The later 3.2L v6 TT seems to have been hit hard but so has my dream Golf of an R32 from 2002.
I thihk the high tax on the PT Cruiser is to get them off the roads.

 

[DRD]

Big motor lobbies EU

EU mandates green stuff. UK follows the trend

Poorer people get priced out of cars, richer ones are forced to buy newer ones

 

[M4carp]

I think the Audi TT 1.8T is cheaper that that, the 225 stock one is and we have seen high numbers from a few sensible changes to those. I had 270 from an 1.8T from a Golf, so perfect fun in a MR2.

Depends on year, pre March 2001 cheaper. It’s 226g/km for the BAM 225 so March 2001 on its £760 a year. Going to be loads getting scrapped because of that I’m guessing.
It’s disgusting what they have done.

Yes might be too much fun in a 900kg car. Easily mapped to 270+ can be pushed 500 plus easily with mods, that would be mental as it’s 200mph car then as there’s some out there doing that I sold my GRMN supercharged Yaris because I was going die in it but the MR2 handles like a go cart so……..

 

[Fantazia2]

The £735/£760 tax only applies to vehicles registered after March 2006, its capped at £430 before that date. Until it goes up in April again of course.

My TT 1.8T is only (Only, Lol) £395, but its the 180 FWD version.

 

[Calimori]

Big motor lobbies EU

EU mandates green stuff. UK follows the trend

Poorer people get priced out of cars, richer ones are forced to buy newer ones

The cost of cars doesn't seem to be putting anyone off. More people are driving cars than ever before, many just don't own them outright, they hand them back in 3-5 years and get another one. Cars are being made for these people.
Cars are status symbols for more people than ever before, look at how many people drive around in BMW's, Audi and Mercs. People who don't even own their own house are aspiring to drive cars that I could never justify buying.

There is also a push for safer vehicles, which take away human issues, like breaking, accelerating, lane control, parking, hand brakes, door opening, auto lights, auto wiping blah blah blah. For many people, this takes the stress away from something they hated doing.
But it does kill it for some of us. I want a TVR that tries to put me in a tree if I am an uncontrolled idiot. I like a car that needs some technique to get it started. I want a car where I plan the journey around the weather and haven't used the wipers for decade because they are utterly pants.
But sometimes I like a car that I can jump in and go to see my parents, again, more cars on my driveway is better so I can choose.

 

[HomerRamone]

I replaced my 2007 MX5 with a 2018 one. The new one is great fun and all - but the price of almost everything is scary. Headlight - £1200. Silly capacitor thing - £1200. Fix the silly bonnet deployment thing - £2000+.

Parts for my old Starion can be a pain to find - but probably still not that much !

 

[Fantazia2]

The cost of cars doesn't seem to be putting anyone off. More people are driving cars than ever before, many just don't own them outright, they hand them back in 3-5 years and get another one. Cars are being made for these people.
Cars are status symbols for more people than ever before, look at how many people drive around in BMW's, Audi and Mercs. People who don't even own their own house are aspiring to drive cars that I could never justify buying.

There is also a push for safer vehicles, which take away human issues, like breaking, accelerating, lane control, parking, hand brakes, door opening, auto lights, auto wiping blah blah blah. For many people, this takes the stress away from something they hated doing.
But it does kill it for some of us. I want a TVR that tries to put me in a tree if I am an uncontrolled idiot. I like a car that needs some technique to get it started. I want a car where I plan the journey around the weather and haven't used the wipers for decade because they are utterly pants.
But sometimes I like a car that I can jump in and go to see my parents, again, more cars on my driveway is better so I can choose.

All these automated features I feel is just making drivers dumber by them relying on them. Just look at all the cars you tend to see now on roads when its foggy during the day who have no rear lights on at all as they think because their lights are automatic they will just magically come on and dont understand that it only works on darkness levels and if its light and foggy the car wont switch their lights on fully.

 

[Calimori]

As a motorcyclist, I decided that assuming everyone else was dumb and then spotting the occasional thinker would help me live longer.
Most people are not driving for pleasure, they drive to get somewhere. They passed a single test, which qualified them to legally drive and have done very little to improve their roadcraft since. The number of people who drive increases but very little capacity has been added.
So yes some people are going to find it easier to drive, which could make them lazy but those of us who drive for fun and adventure won't be made dumb but these aids if we use them.

If someone isn't aware what their car is doing with the rear lights, then isn't that an owner issue?
The fog light thing is an oddity because where I live, too many people put front fogs on to look cool in the city, and rear fogs on for no discernable reason.

 

[M4carp]

I think the Audi TT 1.8T is cheaper that that, the 225 stock one is and we have seen high numbers from a few sensible changes to those. I had 270 from an 1.8T from a Golf, so perfect fun in a MR2.
The later 3.2L v6 TT seems to have been hit hard but so has my dream Golf of an R32 from 2002.
I thihk the high tax on the PT Cruiser is to get them off the roads.

The £735/£760 tax only applies to vehicles registered after March 2006, its capped at £430 before that date. Until it goes up in April again of course.

My TT 1.8T is only (Only, Lol) £395, but its the 180 FWD version.

Apologies you guys are right, some searches came up with the high figure and whoever told me was wrong. Damn less chance of them getting scrapped now
Unless in April it’s going up to that, surely not though.

Audi TT Coupe (from 1999) car tax

Find your car model's tax in Parkers' handy VED and road tax calculator: search by make and model

www.parkers.co.uk

 

[Calimori]

If you are going to change exhaust and intercooler, an AUM or AUQ will get 220-250 with a stage 2 map. Both are the smaller Ko3s turbo with a lot of options to go bigger.

 

[new forest pinball]

Agree. Modern car repair bills are extremely expensive, having worked in the car trade for many years, even with mates in high places costs can be crazy. (Typically x10 the value of my daily Jalopy……….)……….
My daily driver when I am not carrying around 10,000+ pinball parts, is a 2001 Alfa Romeo 147 2.0 petrol, its been fantastic, the most disastrous thing I’ve had go wrong with it is the driver’s sun visor snapped off and dangled in my line of sight almost causing me to hit a pothole!…….(probably a tad bias as I have owned Lancia/Alfa Romeo since 1985 ).

I will leave it there….. ….. K.

 

[russdx1]

Nothing wrong with a nice new car and all its toys

Hybrid at the moment but will take the full electric plunge when my lease runs out as basically run it mostly in electric.

 

[neil1637]

Maybe not wholly in the spirit of the OP post but..

I've had new cars for the last 10 plus years. But, always on lease, changing every 3 years. Both myself and MrsM do.

Never pay anything upfront and always do PCH to keep the payments as low as possible. (Always select 5k annual mileage and pay for any extra at the end, as it's only £100 per extra 1000miles, which is nothing compared to the increase in monthly payments if you chose 10k.

Always pay for the full maintenance pack, extra £20p/m, and then I get all the luxury and toys of a new car (turn off all those daft beeps and boops), without the worry cost of ever owning as its a) under warranty, and b) not my car.

Win, win.

 

[Gonzo]

The cost of cars doesn't seem to be putting anyone off. More people are driving cars than ever before, many just don't own them outright, they hand them back in 3-5 years and get another one. Cars are being made for these people.
Cars are status symbols for more people than ever before, look at how many people drive around in BMW's, Audi and Mercs. People who don't even own their own house are aspiring to drive cars that I could never justify buying.

There is also a push for safer vehicles, which take away human issues, like breaking, accelerating, lane control, parking, hand brakes, door opening, auto lights, auto wiping blah blah blah. For many people, this takes the stress away from something they hated doing.
But it does kill it for some of us. I want a TVR that tries to put me in a tree if I am an uncontrolled idiot. I like a car that needs some technique to get it started. I want a car where I plan the journey around the weather and haven't used the wipers for decade because they are utterly pants.
But sometimes I like a car that I can jump in and go to see my parents, again, more cars on my driveway is better so I can choose.

This is where I am mate. I have done my time and now want to do as little as possible and even the van is an automatic hybrid with all the extras.

My ankle aches if I use a clutch too much in traffic jams and I get a trapped nerve looking over my shoulder to reverse . I do neither now.

My phone warms the car up before I get in it and even the steering wheel is heated, apparently it will park itself too but I haven't tried it yet.

I have a 2002 Mini Cooper GTT Tuned & kitted on the drive and I haven't driven it since July and honestly can't be @rsed. I'm lazy, getting fatter by the day and if my car can take up half the work for me then I'm all for it. I'll hand it back in three years and get another.

If I need more than 300 miles in one trip I can drive the van. But honestly, it's no hassle with 20 mins on a tesla supercharger, pop into the showroom, grab a coffee for free, use the loo then sit in the car and watch netflix on the screen. Lovely.

 

[russdx1]

This is where I am mate. I have done my time and now want to do as little as possible and even the van is an automatic hybrid with all the extras.

My ankle aches if I use a clutch too much in traffic jams and I get a trapped nerve looking over my shoulder to reverse . I do neither now.

My phone warms the car up before I get in it and even the steering wheel is heated, apparently it will park itself too but I haven't tried it yet.

I have a 2002 Mini Cooper GTT Tuned & kitted on the drive and I haven't driven it since July and honestly can't be @rsed. I'm lazy, getting fatter by the day and if my car can take up half the work for me then I'm all for it. I'll hand it back in three years and get another.

If I need more than 300 miles in one trip I can drive the van. But honestly, it's no hassle with 20 mins on a tesla supercharger, pop into the showroom, grab a coffee for free, use the loo then sit in the car and watch netflix on the screen. Lovely.

What’s this clutch you talk of? Iv not driven a manual for 15 years and never will again. My partner has an auto only license as well.

 

[Gonzo]

What’s this clutch you talk of? Iv not driven a manual for 15 years and never will again. My partner has an auto only license as well.

Yeah, we just got my girlfriend an automatic CRV. . . She's never driven an automatic before and absolutely loves it.

 

[M4carp]

If you are going to change exhaust and intercooler, an AUM or AUQ will get 220-250 with a stage 2 map. Both are the smaller Ko3s turbo with a lot of options to go bigger.

There’s a plug and play factory finish like kit that does all the custom parts to fit and it’s the BAM engine it needs really, it’s cheaper to mod that one to get the most power apparently. Here’s a clip of one and the engine had issues, think the head gasket was gone and was still pretty impressive. One time the hard top blew off from the cabin pressure

 

[M4carp]

I’ve had hybrids since 2008, have the latest RAV4 hybrid and a 2013 2.2 diesel auto version. It’s great having auto for daily use no doubt about it but it’s also good to thrash a manual about especially where I live, some nice pothole free roads around here

 

[DRD]

In our supposedly green-conscious days I find it outrageous that perfectly good, easily maintained cars with many years life will end up being exported to other markets/ scrapped.

Assuming 10k miles a year, AI says that running a 2005 Golf for 10 more years and scrapping it is greener than buying a new Golf and scrapping that after 10 years. I wonder how many brand new Golfs will even be viable at 10 yrs old as all the tech and sensors fail over time.

The freedom/ independence I had as an 18yr old with my 13 year old Golf will be unavailable to modern kids unlucky enough to be born to average income families.

My Golf had a low compression engine that originally ran on 2 Star. Whilst slow, the valves were safely out of reach of the pistons. I went camping to Cornwall with a pal after our A Levels. The cam belt snapped on the motorway. We were recovered to the nearest VW garage. Armed with a Haynes manual, we replaced the damned thing ourselves.

 

[Calimori]

I value these things too, the joy of fixing issues by the road and the sense you were part of your own destiny. After work tonight, I will be sitting in the rain changing more ABS sensors on a 10 year old Golf. Not because I can’t afford a garage to do it, but because I can do it quicker and for less stress.

Other people value getting in and just driving.

As for all the old cars, they get broken down and the parts get moved on to fix the broken down cars. Though the days of doing a scrapyard hunt yourself is now over. That was another adventure future kids won’t have. Climbing a car stack to get to the metro at the top.