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Letter to my local MP

DAD

DAD

Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
680
Location
Huddersfield. Real name David Dutton
Alias
David Dutton
Pinball Resource are not taking orders for UK delivery at the moment citing the new VAT rules whereby they have to charge and account for VAT.

I'm sure this is going to affect other suppliers as well.

Here's a copy of a message I've just sent to my local (Conservative) MP on the subject:



Dear Jason McCartney MP

Like millions of Britons I have a hobby.

When you have a hobby, especially a minority one, you rely on an army of small suppliers of bits, many of them hobbyists themselves, and many overseas.

In my case my hobby is restoring electro-mechanical pinball machines.

I have just learnt that the only supplier of many parts for pre 1980 pinball machines will no longer supply customers in the UK.

This is because of the change to VAT rules. As a small old fashioned business based in the USA it does not make any sense for them to get involved in VAT accounting for their small number of UK customers.

At a stroke I have lost access to a whole range of parts I need and will need.

A similar situation must apply to enthusiasts with all sorts of minority interests.

Is the Government aware of this issue, and what steps is it proposing to take to resolve it?

Regards
David Dutton
Marsden
 
David has worded this in a way that doesn’t need to involve Brexit and maybe Steve will still recognise the issue. Folks are not ordering from overseas to undercut uk prices or avoid vat, sometimes it is the only option.
 
The reply so far, which is what you would expect at this stage. It came within 45 minutes which I was impressed by.

Remains to be seen if it leads to anything though


Dear David,



Thank you for your email and raising this issue.



I will write to the Treasury ministerial team and ask for a response. Unfortunately replies are taking longer than normal due to covid but I will pass it onto you as soon as I receive it.



Kind regards,



Jason
 
Just send a similar e-mail to my MP Wes Streeting. We should get a little campaign going by each sending it to our local MP's
 
Well worded, I've been finding it quite frustrating attempting to get parts in as a lot of my usual go-to companies wont ship to the UK anymore.... fun times indeed
 
When I order form the US I tend to send with Viabox they are based in Oregon so no USA sales tax for one, then you can do multiple purchases from differing US suppliers as Viabox will combine into one shipment.
Finally if you dare (I do) you have to do the customs declaration your self, so very expensive plastic pinball mods become 'plastic' toy $10, 100's of LEDs become sample LEDs $25, so little to none import tax.
Yeah there is a risk of the package going missing so its up to the individual.
 
DAD said:
Pinball Resource are not taking orders for UK delivery at the moment citing the new VAT rules whereby they have to charge and account for VAT.

I'm sure this is going to affect other suppliers as well.

Here's a copy of a message I've just sent to my local (Conservative) MP on the subject:



Dear Jason McCartney MP

Like millions of Britons I have a hobby.

When you have a hobby, especially a minority one, you rely on an army of small suppliers of bits, many of them hobbyists themselves, and many overseas.

In my case my hobby is restoring electro-mechanical pinball machines.

I have just learnt that the only supplier of many parts for pre 1980 pinball machines will no longer supply customers in the UK.

This is because of the change to VAT rules. As a small old fashioned business based in the USA it does not make any sense for them to get involved in VAT accounting for their small number of UK customers.

At a stroke I have lost access to a whole range of parts I need and will need.

A similar situation must apply to enthusiasts with all sorts of minority interests.

Is the Government aware of this issue, and what steps is it proposing to take to resolve it?

Regards
David Dutton
Marsden
Click to expand...
Well said dave, I suspect though that you’ll just get the generic response about the threshold for orders and business to business purchases. Or worse the ridiculous ‘just buy it from a uk supplier’ statement. Totally missing the whole point that external micro business that have unique stock would rather stop selling to uk then wade through uk gov/hmrc rules and documents. plain and simply it’s a massive mess now that’s not easy to solve without loads of extra headaches and hassle
 
Julian said:
When I order form the US I tend to send with Viabox they are based in Oregon so no USA sales tax for one, then you can do multiple purchases from differing US suppliers as Viabox will combine into one shipment.
Finally if you dare (I do) you have to do the customs declaration your self, so very expensive plastic pinball mods become 'plastic' toy $10, 100's of LEDs become sample LEDs $25, so little to none import tax.
Yeah there is a risk of the package going missing so its up to the individual.
Click to expand...
Have you used them since the new VAT rules were introduced?
 
DAD said:
Pinball Resource are not taking orders for UK delivery at the moment citing the new VAT rules whereby they have to charge and account for VAT.

I'm sure this is going to affect other suppliers as well.

Here's a copy of a message I've just sent to my local (Conservative) MP on the subject:



Dear Jason McCartney MP

Like millions of Britons I have a hobby.

When you have a hobby, especially a minority one, you rely on an army of small suppliers of bits, many of them hobbyists themselves, and many overseas.

In my case my hobby is restoring electro-mechanical pinball machines.

I have just learnt that the only supplier of many parts for pre 1980 pinball machines will no longer supply customers in the UK.

This is because of the change to VAT rules. As a small old fashioned business based in the USA it does not make any sense for them to get involved in VAT accounting for their small number of UK customers.

At a stroke I have lost access to a whole range of parts I need and will need.

A similar situation must apply to enthusiasts with all sorts of minority interests.

Is the Government aware of this issue, and what steps is it proposing to take to resolve it?

Regards
David Dutton
Marsden
Click to expand...
Just in case you do not find a solution, I may be able to help. I have both family and many friends in the USA that could ship to the U.K. and use the “gift” under £40 method. I’m U.K. based now, but used to live there and still get stuff sent by family and friends 😉
 
DAD said:
@DUBious that's very helpful thank you.

If no proper method of ordering evolves it will be extremely useful to have a workaround
Click to expand...
No problem, I use the same method for some hard to source vw parts, so it’s a pretty straight forward process I’m used to. I will check if the new post brexit situation affects gifts but it’s unlikely to change.
 
It’s been posted, but we are struggling to get hold of the wife’s mom as they’ve had a death ‘ brought back to life incident in the family. I’ll confirm postage cost and tracking as soon as she’s back in touch
 
Great letter. As an EM restorer I’ve also contacted PBR and got the depressing news that they’re shutting shop to the U.K. I’m copying your letter and posting to my M.P. Thanks
 
Received a reply from my MP which is attached

I've replied back , which is also attached

I've sent a copy of the Treasury letter to PBR pointing out that if the value of the order is over £135 (which will include shipping) then nothing changes, so if they applied a minimum order charge for the UK of, say $120 or even $150 they should be able to carry on supplying
I'd like to think that they would go for that, but they are a bit of a stubborn lot I think so nothing is certain :(
If they did like Marco and went with someone like Zonos is would also solve the problem - but I've already suggested that to them and they weren't interested
 

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  • Technical Note.pdf
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  • Treasury Letter.pdf
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David, it does seem that a lot of suppliers just simply could not be bothered. It should be no different to say USA people posting to Japan/Australia/Canada.

Having run into the same issues, not with pinball - but musical instrument/amplifier repair parts it seems we are such a small market in the UK we 'dont matter' or 'not worth the hassle'.
 
Well done David :thumbs:, now do you fancy sorting out shipping from one part of the UK to another (England to Northern Ireland) ? :) :rofl:

It requires an invoice, TSS cert EORI and XIEORI number which are all for businesses not private individuals, fine going the other way but i guess the risk of it slipping over the border is to big for the HMRC
I can ship from southern ireland to northern ireland without all the paperwork and vice versa but not from the Mainland (hate that term) to the island of Ireland North or South, complete pain in the butt
 
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Just a thought, but would it be worth while for a UK parts provider to accumulate orders from UK customers for US specialists then take a handling fee for distributing them?
 
You are wasting your time but the good news is these guys will shortly have to think again because AS I SAID this is nothing to do with Brexit but a long planned EU change:

Dear Customer,

From 1 July 2021, there will be significant changes to the European Union’s Value Added Tax rules applying to the shipment of goods into the EU. While these reforms primarily target B2C e-commerce imports, impacting both businesses and online shoppers, they may also impact B2B imports.

If you ship goods into the EU, we recommend that you begin preparing your business now.

Please consider how the following changes may impact your business:

Removal of the €22 VAT exemption for imports
The VAT exemption currently in place for goods imported into the EU with a value up to €22 will be removed, meaning that these shipments will now be subject to VAT. These low value goods will therefore also require formal customs clearance, although most goods valued up to €150 remain exempt from customs duties.

Please ensure you provide a complete and accurate commercial invoice to reduce the risk of customs delays:

  • Follow our useful guide to completing a commercial invoice
  • Submit your commercial invoice electronically with UPS Paperless® Invoice so customs can start clearing your shipments before they reach the border
Launch of the Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) Platform for imports up to €150
The EU is launching an Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) platform to simplify the declaration and the payment of VAT for B2C imports up to a value of €150.

This optional platform only requires you to register with a single EU Member State to manage your sales VAT throughout the EU, removing the need to register for VAT in every country you are selling goods to.
If you are a non-EU based supplier or marketplace selling goods to consumers in the EU, registering with the IOSS means you can collect accurate VAT for the purchase from the consumer at the point of sale, which can then be declared and paid in a periodic VAT return.

Shipments containing a valid IOSS number will therefore not be subject to import VAT, which may help them move through customs quicker.

If your company does not have an EU-based establishment and you wish to register for the IOSS, you will need to appoint an intermediary to settle VAT through this platform.

Registering for the IOSS platform is not obligatory and you can continue to declare and pay VAT on EU imports as you do today.

Here is a useful checklist to prepare your business for these changes:

  • Identify which areas of your business are impacted by the new EU VAT rules
  • Assess your VAT accounting needs for the EU: Systems and master data updates are likely to be required to identify and apply the appropriate VAT rates in multiple jurisdictions
  • You may consider registering for the IOSS platform if you want to use a single registration to pay VAT throughout the EU for B2C shipments up to € 150
  • If you register for IOSS, appoint an intermediary to handle tax compliance on your behalf in the EU in case you don’t have an EU-based establishment
  • Review and potentially cancel existing foreign EU VAT registrations if you wish to replace these with a single IOSS registration where applicable
  • If you choose not to register for the IOSS platform, ensure you have a valid UPS account to charge import fees to
  • If you are selling through an online marketplace, contact them to understand who will be responsible for VAT accounting for your B2C shipments up to €150
  • If you are using UPS WorldShip or H2H as your shipping system, please make the necessary system updates when they become available
  • If you choose to pass on import charges to your consignee, please inform them upfront that import fees will be due for their shipment

Want more information to prepare your business?

Download the UPS EU VAT Reform Guide


Make sure to also watch the UPS EU VAT Reform Webinar

We thank you for your continued trust in UPS.


Your UPS Team
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