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Is the recession influencing pin prices?

Judge Dreads

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Joined
Jul 21, 2011
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Y Felinheli
Let’s face it there’s currently very few worthwhile places to invest your hard earned dough, interest rates are crap, the stock market is volatile, property prices are in decline. Are people in the know who have some stashed cash investing in pinball machines which may be contributing to the price hikes? (hoarding which removes them from circulation which in turn influences supply/demand and finally price)



Pinballs are a pretty safe bet and you get to enjoy your investment while it appreciates in value (or at least maintains it) instead of allowing some banker to play with it for zero return, seems like a good alternative.



Met a pinhead a couple of years back who thought just that, he had just cashed in his poor performing investment and purchased a mint MM for £3000, I doubt there have been many other investments on offer since the start of the recession (late 2007ish) where you could potentially double your money in 2.5 years, not saying that pin prices have doubled in 2.5 years just that he got lucky sourcing the right machine and decided it was better use of his money than watching it go sideways.



This gentleman was an enthusiast and loved pinball but decided to move his money as it was lying dormant, had it been earning 10% (invested in shares etc which was possible pre recession) then he may have just left it where it was and skipped throwing his nest egg at a new toy.



I see the same thing happening on sought after classic motorcycles, (RG500, RC30 etc) are still appreciating at a steady rate even in a deep recession.



In the land of the slot machine the worn out Gilligans Island is king!!
 
It is strange that pin prices going up in a deep recession. Have thought about it a lot. I bought my pins to have fun through these dark cold winters and at heart, I realise they are toys that like anything else may go up or down in value. At the moment, there seems to be a supply issue so when the popular titles come up, there are more buyers chasing and so price goes higher.



Whilst everyone has different opinions re the games, most of us want some of the top 20 titles or at least one so we are all chasing a limited supply. Only takes a few new people to get hooked and there are more buyers chasing fewer pins.



Maybe another reason is that Stern used to sell way more games than they do now so we have not been swamped by new pins. If say 100 Trons came into the UK, then more older titles would come onto the market.



At the moment we seem in one of those cycles where perception is everything as the more people hold on to pins because they think they are going up in value, the less come onto the market, and so prices do rise!!



Anyway, enough rambling from me
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replicas' date=' post: 1677725 said:
Carefull. The time will come when Pinball Prices start to fall.

True!



At least it will then be easier to find pins
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That's why I want to sell up soon and invest in a woz. If I can find one for less than 7k!
 
replicas' date=' post: 1677725 said:
Carefull. The time will come when Pinball Prices start to fall.



It's not happening with motorcycles, why should it happen with pins?, owners of some classic Triumphs etc these days were not even born when the bikes were manufactured but still they own and cherish, there is nothing to say future generations will not embrace pinball in the same way as we do and as the supply is already pre-determined it will hardly take any interest to maintain the demand while the fixed supply dwindles.



Considering with bikes there is the risk that fuel will no longer be available in the future coupled with silly running costs and weather considerations, pinball seems less handicapped.



Anything that's addictive should maintain it's value especially when the supply is limited.
 
Won't fall but will reach a plateau. Already I have heard people say why buy that when I can buy a new one for less? I won't pay £1600 odd quid for a 20 year old WPC game when I can pay £2200 for a couple of year old Stern and certainly wouldn't pay £5.5K for that MM when I could have a NIB Tron for less...
 
Phil Dixon' date=' post: 1677739 said:
Won't fall but will reach a plateau. Already I have heard people say why buy that when I can buy a new one for less? I won't pay £1600 odd quid for a 20 year old WPC game when I can pay £2200 for a couple of year old Stern and certainly wouldn't pay £5.5K for that MM when I could have a NIB Tron for less...



Plateau is definitely a possibility for trophy titles, I for one have backed away from paying £6000 for a MM even though I fancy owning one.



There again I would never spend £5000 on a nib Stern which is guaranteed to go down in value as soon as you open the box when there are 100's of decent titles out there which can be purchased for a fraction of the price that will not depreciate, I will leave that to the wealthy few, possibly the same people who drive a new car off the forecourt.
 
Prices of pins will only fall if some of the top titles get remade. Even then, some folk will still want the originals and will still pay handsomely for them.



There will be a plateau in these prices as the people buying them will only go so far. I have had some right crazy offers for a couple of my pins lately, so much so, i'm actually considering getting rid of a few when i thought i would never sell....



These pin shows that have been becoming more and more frequent obviously add to potential buyer numbers. Some might recoil upon hearing the costs involved in buying an old pin. Others will only want them more.



Big prices are here to stay. Like has been said, demand will continue to rise while machine numbers fall. The resulting price increase is inevitable. There will be no fall in prices. Die hard pinheads will keep their machines, others will sell them for big money. Do you really think new owners paying that much cash for an old pin are going to bend over and take a huge hit on the resale?..... I think not.



Get saving kiddies, Money is NOTHING without pinball in your life!.....
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Reminds me of the adage

"A recession is when your neighbour loses his job. A depression is when you lose yours".



My 2p - By most measures, we're not in a recession atm, and there's still "cheap credit" cash floating about masquerading as investments i.e. Low interest mortgages and MEW (Mortgage Equity Withdrawal).

Cheap money always finds a home - At times like this, antiques and collectables are good stores of wealth while shares and real estate are floundering.
 
Just put my Viper on ebay last night. Was very interesting to see, despite me putting on for £700, it is the cheapest DMD pin on there, inc auctions. 7 watchers as well, and it's only 12 hours on.



Sign of the times maybe.
 
Another month or so and we will be edging into the silly price xmas period, the "would make an ideal xmas gift" nonsense on every listing, if it was ideal you wouldn't need a garage to hide it in, 10 rolls of wrapping paper and two people to hump into your living room on xmas day
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The CV that was on ebay with the rubbish photos had 11 offers, one at £3495 which was rejected. I only just missed out on an absolute beauty of a CV.....sold for £3100 off ebay. Should have driven to Kent with cash in my pocket
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I made two offers both of which were declined, again I can live without and would rather know that I paid a sensible price for a title than think that I mugged myself in a moment of desperation.



£3000ish for a mint example is my limit, if it doesn't come, I don't care
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Dreads' date=' post: 1677738 said:
It's not happening with motorcycles, why should it happen with pins?, owners of some classic Triumphs etc these days were not even born when the bikes were manufactured but still they own and cherish, there is nothing to say future generations will not embrace pinball in the same way as we do and as the supply is already pre-determined it will hardly take any interest to maintain the demand while the fixed supply dwindles.



Considering with bikes there is the risk that fuel will no longer be available in the future coupled with silly running costs and weather considerations, pinball seems less handicapped.



Anything that's addictive should maintain it's value especially when the supply is limited.

Think about it how many generation under us play Pinball ? Not many
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For this reason alone pins will be worth next to nothing with no demand for them.
 
replicas' date=' post: 1677768 said:
Think about it how many generation under us play Pinball ? Not many
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For this reason alone pins will be worth next to nothing with no demand for them.



That may happen. You plan on dying anytime soon?...



All it takes is two people wanting the same title in the same area. Cue imminent bid war, and your left with expensive pin syndrome. Doesnt take much.
 
I think there will always be people out there who can afford anything and everything including having a games room just for the sake of it, doesn't take many of these to use up the quota of desirable pins out there.
 
replicas' date=' post: 1677768 said:
Think about it how many generation under us play Pinball ? Not many
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For this reason alone pins will be worth next to nothing with no demand for them.



Well, I will still be wanting pins in 10/20 years time but not sure if my kids will! Maybe Jersey Jack will start a pinball comeback?
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Replay' date=' post: 1677756 said:
The CV that was on ebay with the rubbish photos had 11 offers, one at £3495 which was rejected. I only just missed out on an absolute beauty of a CV.....sold for £3100 off ebay. Should have driven to Kent with cash in my pocket
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Did the CV on ebay sell? Or was it pulled by the seller?
 
The other thing to bear in mind is that the trends in the UK may not be an accurate indicator of the interest worldwide, 95% of everything I make goes to the US & Australia (65% US), Europe accounts for 4.5% and the UK about 0.5%, what this tells you is that the UK is a mere blip within the big picture.



The youth from other countries may be embracing pinball a lot more than in the UK especially the US where it has a sentimental value and Australia where they still have machines in arcades. Pinball machines may be rare in arcades on the whole but pinball on the PC, XBOX and PS is regularly being updated and released which means that the youth is always exposed to pinball in one form or another and an element of this youth will seek out the real thing when the time is right.



I think even if prices start to decline in the UK (unlikely but if it does it will be a long time from now) these machines will still be in demand in countries such as the US and OZ which will result in a profitable export market for the top titles. I believe that some have recently left these shores and the future demand for exported pins will always be present which will further reduce the chance of a decline in price JMHO.
 
that`s exactly what i have done with this years isa money, bought a mint lotr instead,intrest in the bank is worthless so i`m enjoing my pinball machines to the full, when the time comes to move it on for a different machine i don`t think i will lose too much money if at all, also i think that people are deciding to spend their money on things from their younger days, i also collect mib matchbox toys from when i was a child ,early seventies, started as a hobby but prices now have gone skywards with no signs of slowing down, i think pinball machines will always be in demand due to the finite numbers made, same with the toy cars, made to be played with and destroyed,so the surviving models fetch good money,
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Rus121' date=' post: 1677775 said:
Did the CV on ebay sell? Or was it pulled by the seller?

It ran the full time but no idea if he took highest offer after ebay finished. If it does not appear again, guess it sold off ebay.
 
Did not sell!!! seller (who seems like a really nice chap from the correspondence received) is holding out for £3500
 
Dreads' date=' post: 1677782 said:
Did not sell!!! seller (who seems like a really nice chap from the correspondence received) is holding out for £3500



I'm sure he will get it too. Its a fantastic game.....



I drove 16 hours in a sweaty tranny van to get mine. The longest, and worst journey ive had since i was 7yr old on a 3 day bus trip to Salou.
 
Replay' date=' post: 1677720 said:
most of us want some of the top 20 titles or at least one so we are all chasing a limited supply. Only takes a few new people to get hooked and there are more buyers chasing fewer pins;)



I think that his statement is pretty close to the mark and while some seem concerned about rising prices and have a notion that people are getting priced out of the hobby, I don't think this is the case.



I don't think pinball prices in general are going up at a noticable rate, only what was highlighted in the quote above.



It was recently mentioned by a member on the group that Gottliebs and other less desirable titles are still readily available and at value prices, this confirms that anyone wishing to get into pinball does not need to fork out £6000 for a MM to get their toe in the water and entering the hobby is still inexpensive (cheaper than a lot of other hobbies), I don’t think they will be scared off by prices, just accept that if they want to run with the time served crew who got their collections when machines were cheap (or the wealthy who have acquired a nice collection in recent years), they will have to save or have a big wad of disposable cash at the ready.



Having expensive trophy titles within the hobby does provide something to strive for, if you collected motorcycles (similarly priced in a lot of ways) you would not get the crème de la crème for £10,000 or anything close, there is a bike currently up on ebay for £222,000, I doubt newbie bikers look at that and think, “Jesus I am going to stick to cycling because I will never be able to own that beastâ€, they just buy what they can afford and work their way up the ladder.



I don’t think the recession is affecting pin prices, just the few desirable titles which most of us are striving for/already own amongst the 100’s out there, maybe in time when other members of the increasing worldwide population get on board, even the chaff will start to appreciate.



With Christmas just around the corner, remember this......



A pinball machine is for life, not just for Christmas!!!
 
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