Help programming Data East DMD PAL chips please

[BomberHQ]

Hi All,

I recently posted about an odd temperature-related DMD problem which may be due to a faulty PAL chip.

Failing all else, I can buy replacement programmed chips, but Id like to program them myself if possible. I have an TL866II programmer and XGpro software which have successfully programmed Game and Display PROM replacements.

The original PAL is from DMD board (520-5055-00) U16, a Texas Instruments TIBPAL16L08-15CN
I now have some GAL equivalents, Atmel ATF16V8B-15PU and the JED files from IPDB

These appear to program and verify correctly but do not work in the machine. Am I missing a step or could the JED file on IPDB be incorrect?

If someone has an alternative source JED file or one that has worked in the GAL chips or has built the JED file from a working chip, could they possibly send it to me?

For info, I have copied the fuse map sections from the JED file below.

Kind regards,

Kevin.

2.8b Version AllMax

Part mode TIBPAL16L8-15
*
QP20*
QF2048*
QV12*
F0*
L00000 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L00032 11101110111111111111101111111111*
L00064 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00096 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00128 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00160 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00192 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00224 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00256 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L00288 10101011101111111111111111111111*
L00320 10101011011110111111111111111111*
L00352 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00384 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00416 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00448 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00480 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00512 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L00544 10101011011101111111011101111111*
L00576 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00608 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00640 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00672 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00704 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00736 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00768 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L00800 10101011011101111111111110111111*
L00832 10111011011101111111111110111110*
L00864 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00896 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00928 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00960 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L00992 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01024 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L01056 10110111111111111111111111111111*
L01088 10111011011110111111111111111111*
L01120 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01152 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01184 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01216 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01248 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01280 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L01312 10111011011101111111101101111110*
L01344 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01376 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01408 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01440 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01472 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01504 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01536 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L01568 01111111111111111111101111111110*
L01600 01101111111111111111011111111111*
L01632 01111111111111111111011111111110*
L01664 10110111111111111111101111111110*
L01696 10100111111111111111011111111111*
L01728 10110111111111111111011111111110*
L01760 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01792 11111111111111111111111111111111*
L01824 01111011111111111111111111111111*
L01856 10110111111111111011111111111111*
L01888 10111011101110111111111111111111*
L01920 10111011011111111111111111111011*
L01952 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L01984 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L02016 00000000000000000000000000000000*
L02048 *

 

[Calimori]

Good topic as I have two of these boards non working and at some point wanted to get back to testing them and the PAL chip was next on the list to check. This is for a Tommy which I fixed with a replacement board, so the PAL chip was complete.

I also saw a similar degradation on the original board before it went complete black.

These PAL chips should be non game specific but the Tommy IPBD entry doesn't include the DMD pal chip file, might be worth checking other games either side of SW to see if they have the same files.
Also, these chips come in a pair with the other one at U2, could this be a mismatch in something between them?

 

[BomberHQ]

UPDATE! I fixed the programming problem

The JED files on IPDB will only work with the original PAL devices. I had assumed the fuse maps in JED files were device-independent, and because the replacement chip programmed without error.

For the record, here are the steps to take (assuming you are running Windows and have a basic TL866II or similar programmer) :

• Download the JED file from IPDB: "PAL DMD Chips"
• Download and install a DOS emulator (I use DOSbox). The version here supports mouse cut and paste (be sure to virus scan).
• Download PAL2GAL.EXE from Lattice Semiconductor or National Semiconductor's OPALjr PAL/GAL programming suite which includes it (be sure to virus scan).
• Create a temporary folder on your hard drive e.g. C:\Temp
• Copy the JED file (e.g. PAL16L8.U16) and these files as a minimum to the temporary folder: PAL2GAL.EXE, JED2EQN.EXE, EQN2JED.EXE, DEVICE.LIB & DEVICE.SEL
• Run the DOS emulator
• From the DOS prompt mount the temporary folder as a drive e.g. MOUNT C C:\Temp
• Run the converter from the prompt e.g.: PAL2GAL -b -dPAL16L8 -gGAL16V8 -oGAL16V8.JED PAL16L8.U16
• Run the programmer software, Load the JED file and make sure the device matches the one you are programming (in my case Atmel ATF16V8B)
• Uncheck the 'Encrypt' option and burn ...

The board now works, but still has the same fault! Time to move on with the fault-finding.

Anyone needing a programmed U16, I can help!

 

[Calimori]

Thanks for writing that up, I don't know whether to take you up on the offer of doing me a set or buy a TL866II compatible programmer as my GX-4 won't do them apparently.

Something I have had success with is using an infrared camera to look at the IC's on a working vs non-working board. The chip that is hotter is usually troubled.
Sadly, my working DE DMD board is a Rottendog board so I can't compare with the two non working (totally blank) original boards.

 

[myPinballs]

Just saw this thread, yes you have to convert Jed files if using gals instead of pals

The issues occur when you don't have the Jed file and the pal in question is either missing/dead or locked.

I have a big resource of pal files from pinball and arcade so can burn most files if required going back along way to the early 80s, plus I wrote many of them from scratch as the Jed files were not available.

the most interesting tool is the jed to equation one, as this helps to explain what the chips are actually doing.

 

[BomberHQ]

Thanks for writing that up, I don't know whether to take you up on the offer of doing me a set or buy a TL866II compatible programmer as my GX-4 won't do them apparently.

Something I have had success with is using an infrared camera to look at the IC's on a working vs non-working board. The chip that is hotter is usually troubled.
Sadly, my working DE DMD board is a Rottendog board so I can't compare with the two non working (totally blank) original boards.

Been looking enviously at these things for a few years. Resolution used to be really crappy, but the newer ones with macro lenses actually look quite useful for debugging. Sadly, still a bit out of my price range though :-(

 

[Calimori]

Mine is an old Seek Thermal Reveal and is easy to find a hot chip on a board, as well as the kid hidden in the garden at night or where the insulation is failing in the cabin.


Here is is checking lithium cells so they don't blow and kill me.