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Help - can't keep it up.

johnwhitfield

johnwhitfield

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Hi Guys, got a problem with my Flintstones at the moment.

The bottom right flipper flips and then immediately drops down again rather than holding up (The top right though is fine).

Checked and re-soldered the wires and they are fine. Checked the switch and both are activated and stay on when the flipper buttons pressed.

Pretty much reached the end of my limited knowledge. What's the next thing I should check?

Thanks

John
 
Is the very thin wire of the coil connected to the lug ? Check carefully , sometimes hard to see/tell. If you resolder it you need to sand off the coating on it to get a good contact.

If OK then the flipper hold transistor could be fubar.
 
Cheers Grizz, I'll check. Originally the wire was pretty much hanging off, so I thought this was the problem.

Would there be a separate transistor for the top and the bottom flipper or do they work off the same one given that they both operate at the same time?
 
Clean the contacts of the EOS switch by dragging a piece of card through them, alternatively it might need adjustment.

Although thinking about it, it wouldn't immediately drop, it would stay on high power and overheat instead.
 
What Grizz said. To verify if the coil is good, use a meter, and with power on, check for the SAME voltage on each terminal. If one is missing, the winding is broken to that terminal.
 
The flipper works thus: when you press the button the high-power coil energises (via a Darlington-paired power transistor) and the flipper moves up. When it reaches the top of its travel it closes the EOS (end-of-stroke) switch which energises the low-power (hold) coil and switches off the high-power coil. The idea is that the low-power coil is sufficient to hold the flipper where it is without using the high-power coil which would quickly overheat. It seems that your low-power coil is not working. Each flipper (upper and lower) has its own driving transistors.
 
xenon325i said:
The flipper works thus: when you press the button the high-power coil energises (via a Darlington-paired power transistor) and the flipper moves up. When it reaches the top of its travel it closes the EOS (end-of-stroke) switch which energises the low-power (hold) coil and switches off the high-power coil. The idea is that the low-power coil is sufficient to hold the flipper where it is without using the high-power coil which would quickly overheat. It seems that your low-power coil is not working. Each flipper (upper and lower) has its own driving transistors.
Click to expand...

But then when the flipper falls and the EOS switch closes, wouldn't it immediately re-energise on high power?
 
^^ Yes, I was thinking that - the flipper would rapidly move up and down, in theory. @OP - has it just failed, i.e. did it used to be OK? It's a bit hard to fathom its action and I wonder if it's even wired up correctly.
 
Actually the EOS switch has little to do with switching the power from high to low. You can disconnect an EOS switch and the flipper will continue to work properly automatically switching from high to low power. The only use of the EOS switch is to re-energise the flipper to high power, if the bat is knocked back from the held position from a fast ball. Clearly this should also re-energise the flipper if the bat drops back due to a faulty winding. SO, maybe there are two problems here. The hold side of the coil winding is broken, or the hold driving circuitry is bad. AND the EOS switch is not working correctly. The latter may well have remained hidden for some time, and is now only apparent with the loss of hold power. Check the EOS switch is responding in test mode by going into switch test and raising each flipper by hand.
 
Explanation:

When the player presses the flipper button, the CPU turns on the high powered side of the flipper coil. When the EOS switch is sensed closed, the high powered hold side of the coil is turned off. If for some reason the EOS never closes, the CPU turns off the high powered side of the coil after a short period of time (a few milliseconds). The low-powered hold side of the coil is powered for as long as the player holds the flipper button.

It therefore seems that it must be the hold coil is either faulty or the hold-coil driving transistor is faulty. You can test the operation of both power and hold coils through the test menu so I'd use that to confirm it but I suspect the coil needs replacing or resoldering.
 
it's cpu controlled via the fliptronics board.
Pre-fliptronics, if a flipper mech was worn and failed to hit the EOS switch, the high power would stay on and melt the coil. Bad design. So with fliptronics, the drive is CPU switched from high to low power after a pre-set time. The CPU then re-energises high power if the EOS switch reports that it has opened. If its broken off, or disconnected, the cpu ignores the fact that it has not closed - it just can't re-energise on knock back.
 
I saw the effect of an open secondary/hold winding on a Fliptronic game with Getaway (which was brand new at the time) - the flipper paddle started to 'chatter', i.e it lifted, dropped back, kicked again as the EoS switch opened, then dropped and stayed down. This problem looks like Andy says, a dual problem with the hold winding and the EoS switch.

John, the two opto switches on the flipper button allow what Williams used to call 'Double Action Flippers'. A player can hold the main flipper raised and still operate the upper flipper independently - a boon during multiball play, if the player knows about it and has the finger control required (which I haven't).
 
Hi Guys

You ROCK!:)

Problem solved. Used Andy's info to check the EOS and that was fine. Then looked at the coil windings and noticed that there must have been a problem before as the wire didn't go into the hole on the "lug" (right by now it's obvious I know **** all about electronics and terms). Anyway it was attached further up and a combination of this and **** poor soldering (might be at least partly to blame here:oops: ) meant it wasn't connecting properly. cleaned it up and resoldered and hey presto - one fully functioning flipper now pointing firmly upwards.

Thanks again for all the help I owe you all one. And just as a special thanks for Grizz I agreed to move my TOM on today.

One machine now back up and running, still got to mend LAH without taking a large axe to it, but hopefully I'm now on a roll.:)
 
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