In Progress Fish Tales - long-term project

[VeeMonroe]

We purchased a Fish Tales in July this year.

We were newbies to pinball and didn’t know anything about how to purchase vintage machines. As such, we bought a ‘discount’ machine at retail from Williams Amusements, which we were told was lower in price than most retail pins because it lacked its fish topper.

We assumed the machine would be fully workshopped - unlike a pin purchased from eBay (or a private collector). It swiftly became obvious that nothing had been done to the Fish Tales and, what had been done, had been botched.

Upon arrival, there was a persistent ball jam in the left outlane, which some kind souls on Pinside helped us work out was being caused by 3” black rubbers on the slingshots. Since then, we’ve cleaned the (filthy) playfield, replaced most of the incandescent bulbs with LEDs, replaced the original DMD with a colorDMD, and have been working on solving a persistent fault with the Caster’s Club.

As we know nothing about pinball machine maintenance, we’ve been asking a lot of questions and it occurred to me that it would be better to keep all of the questions in the same place...

 

[stumblor]

Ive just rebuilt a casters club, surprisingly difficult to dial in. Let me know if you need to hash out any issues. Correct parts really help!

 

[VeeMonroe]

About a fortnight ago, the intermittent fault with the Caster’s Club became unbearably bad. My husband originally thought the fault was due to a broken spring attached to a solenoid (and I ordered a replacement), but I worked out that it was actually due to a botched repair on the Caster’s Club Ball Popper Assembly.

Somebody had attached the Ball Popper cap to the Solenoid Assembly with a twisted piece of wire. The popper cap was wobbling around and triggering the ‘ball detection‘ switch, giving ball locks when there was no ball there.

We ordered a metric-sized dowel pin similar to the 3/32” x 1/2” original Williams part off Amazon, as there were no replacement parts available to order in the UK. We subsequently ordered a dowel pin in imperial measurements from Accu.co.uk because the metric-sized dowel pin didn’t fit.

 

[stumblor]

Yeah that ball popper end piece, the arm, and especially that tiny secondary spring (surprisingly) are all critical to it working correctly. Bit of a balancing act. So did you get it sorted in the end?

 

[VeeMonroe]

We were planning to go to the Godzilla Launch Party at the Brunswick Arcade today while my mum looked after our Pi-Bo Wizard (aged one).

Unfortunately, my husband woke up this morning really unwell with the Pi-Bo Wizard’s latest cold and the Flipper Beast was also complaining about feeling unwell. Thus, we realised we’d have to miss the tournament. Fortunately, my husband started feeling slightly better in the mid-afternoon, so we decided to use the time stuck indoors to try to shop our Fish Tales.

 

[VeeMonroe]

It was a complete p**s nuisance to fit the new dowel pin. We first tried fitting it without removing the solenoid assembly because the screws were rusted in. Eventually, after a lot of fiddling, my husband managed to detach the solenoid assembly. I then held the assembly while he hammered the dowel pin. It took ages to hammer it in, during which we thought it didn’t fit and considered WD40. Eventually, we got it in and - cross fingers - have finally fixed the fault.

Most of the fiddling around only needed one person, so I took the opportunity to try to clean the extensive rust off the underside of the lockdown bar using tin foil and white wine vinegar. It was not as successful as I’d hoped.

BEFORE





AFTER


The rubber on the base of the lockdown bar (the ‘beer seal’) is badly degraded. It’s also completely the wrong size - I think it should be a 20.5” and only extend part of the way along the bar. Ours extends right to the edge of the bar and is curled slightly at the corner - it looks like it’s designed for a wide body pin.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Yeah that ball popper end piece, the arm, and especially that tiny secondary spring (surprisingly) are all critical to it working correctly. Bit of a balancing act. So did you get it sorted in the end?

Yes, we did. Thanks for the offer of help

 

[VeeMonroe]

While we were working on the pin, our Flipper Beast decided to ‘hlep’. Hleping is defined as ’what your unwell five year old does when they’re trying to help’. In this case, he put a spanner into the works (literally).



Fortunately, we still needed to fit LEDs and replacement rubbers under the plastics in the catapult and reel area. So, my husband took apart the whole left-hand side of the playfield to look for the missing wrench (Note: I’d previously taken apart the right-hand side to fit LEDs). While he was there, I fitted two LEDs, two rubbers and a blue bayonet flasher. I also did a lot of cleaning.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I’ve been trying to get the ball trails off the playfield using Novus 2 and pro foam cleaner. I attempted to polish the top of the playfield while the plastics had been removed using the Novus 2 and Caruba wax.

I’m not 100% happy with how it came out. It’s definitely cleaner, but there are shiny and less shiny patches - not sure what is causing that. Any suggestions?

 

[VeeMonroe]

While we were there, we also fitted a monster fish mod!

 

[taz turbo]

Oh reminds me of my FT, my first pin, bought from a ‘dealer’ from eBay… picked it up, ‘now here’s the balls, there really good, they don’t have much rust on them’

Got it home, unpacked and set up, hmm, the rubbers that were all allegedly replaced were all cracking and one split.

Day 2, turned it on, hmmm, Spanish! Batteries that were also allegedly replaced were many years out of date, dead but thankfully not leaking.

Quick email, seller was ‘very sorry, didn’t know how they missed those items’ and very courteously gave me something like a £20 refund.

Had that machine many years now, it’s battered but plays well and all works well.

Shonky sellers seem to get about sadly.


@VeeMonroe good luck with yours.

 

[Big Phil]

Love my FT !

 

[David_Vi]

Nice monster fish mod! I thought you couldn't get those anymore.

I have ball trails I can't get out also, tried both novus 1 and 2, haven't got a foam cleaner though

 

[PinIB]

extensive rust off the underside of the lockdown bar

Citric acid melts rust in front of your eyes. Hot water mixed with citric acid which comes in power form off Amazon will get that off. Just put weather tape on for the replacement beer seal - more than good enough to make it look neat.

This is what I used on loads of rusty 1970s motorbike parts over the summer without an issue.

 

[Jay Walker]

Hello, Vee,

With the Casters' Club, and its blocking drop target, I'd wondered if the target 'dropper' had suffered a quite common breakage. The bracket holding the small dropper coil, listed as 'Frame & Eyelet' in the drawings, can easily have a retaining/adjustment bar break off, allowing the coil plate (with the dropping finger attached) to rest a long way short of the target*. I can't really see from the pictures already shown, but at the end of post No.5 the plate seems to have a large gap from the coil. In fact, the coil doesn't look right, either. Williams (abusements) strikes again?

* this was more frequent on Star Trek Next Gen, but I saw it on Fish Tales as well. Basically, if the coil plate and finger can be removed, or just fall off, once the return spring is detached, then the F&E has broken. A new one has a central 'spike' sticking out where the plate is fitted; once the plate is attached and retained with the spring, the spike is gently bent around to secure the plate and adjust the resting position of the plate/finger.

 

[David_Vi]

Hello, Vee,

With the Casters' Club, and its blocking drop target, I'd wondered if the target 'dropper' had suffered a quite common breakage. The bracket holding the small dropper coil, listed as 'Frame & Eyelet' in the drawings, can easily have a retaining/adjustment bar break off, allowing the coil plate (with the dropping finger attached) to rest a long way short of the target*. I can't really see from the pictures already shown, but at the end of post No.5 the plate seems to have a large gap from the coil. In fact, the coil doesn't look right, either. Williams (abusements) strikes again?

* this was more frequent on Star Trek Next Gen, but I saw it on Fish Tales as well. Basically, if the coil plate and finger can be removed, or just fall off, once the return spring is detached, then the F&E has broken. A new one has a central 'spike' sticking out where the plate is fitted; once the plate is attached and retained with the spring, the spike is gently bent around to secure the plate and adjust the resting position of the plate/finger.

This sound similar to an issue I had only yesterday, I realised the drop target wasn't resetting itself at the start of a game. Turns out that weird metal finger had snapped off! Luckly Pinball Heaven have them in stock . Must be a common part to break .

 

[Jay Walker]

The brass* dropping finger (is it termed 'Actuator'?) can break as well, leaving nothing able to reach the target at all. This part of the dropper attachment is handed Left or Right, as different uses saw the dropper mounted either side of the main target assembly.

* I recall them being brass, anyway

 

[VeeMonroe]

Hello, Vee,

With the Casters' Club, and its blocking drop target, I'd wondered if the target 'dropper' had suffered a quite common breakage. The bracket holding the small dropper coil, listed as 'Frame & Eyelet' in the drawings, can easily have a retaining/adjustment bar break off, allowing the coil plate (with the dropping finger attached) to rest a long way short of the target*. I can't really see from the pictures already shown, but at the end of post No.5 the plate seems to have a large gap from the coil. In fact, the coil doesn't look right, either. Williams (abusements) strikes again?

* this was more frequent on Star Trek Next Gen, but I saw it on Fish Tales as well. Basically, if the coil plate and finger can be removed, or just fall off, once the return spring is detached, then the F&E has broken. A new one has a central 'spike' sticking out where the plate is fitted; once the plate is attached and retained with the spring, the spike is gently bent around to secure the plate and adjust the resting position of the plate/finger.

Hi Jay,

It wasn’t a drop target problem (with the actuator). The drop target, as far as we know, seems to be working okay. The problem was that we were getting ‘Ball Lock 1’ ‘Ball Lock 2’ messages when the ball was nowhere near the Caster’s Club. Eventually, this became so frequent that the game became unplayable - the lights were constantly flashing, we were getting jackpots we didn’t deserve, the ball popper solenoid was constantly firing, and the reel kept spinning looking for a ball that never arrived.

The problem, which we’ve now fixed (cross fingers), is that the ball popper cap had been attached to the rod underneath with a bit of bent wire. This meant that the popper cap was loose and, as it vibrated with the movement of the playfield, it pushed down the brass fingers in the ball popper assembly, and created a connection that triggered the ‘ball lock’ message. The solution to this was to remove the bent wire and replace with a 3/32” x 1/2” mini dowel, which is a replacement part that is on the Marco Specialities website (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/20-9314-7), but not available in the UK. As such, we sourced a custom one from Accu.co.uk.

Vivienne

 

[David_Vi]

The brass* dropping finger (is it termed 'Actuator'?) can break as well, leaving nothing able to reach the target at all. This part of the dropper attachment is handed Left or Right, as different uses saw the dropper mounted either side of the main target assembly.

* I recall them being brass, anyway

That's what happened to me, ordered a right hand one

 

[David_Vi]

Hi Jay,

It wasn’t a drop target problem (with the actuator). The drop target, as far as we know, seems to be working okay. The problem was that we were getting ‘Ball Lock 1’ ‘Ball Lock 2’ messages when the ball was nowhere near the Caster’s Club. Eventually, this became so frequent that the game became unplayable - the lights were constantly flashing, we were getting jackpots we didn’t deserve, the ball popper solenoid was constantly firing, and the reel kept spinning looking for a ball that never arrived.

The problem, which we’ve now fixed (cross fingers), is that the ball popper cap had been attached to the rod underneath with a bit of bent wire. This meant that the popper cap was loose and, as it vibrated with the movement of the playfield, it pushed down the brass fingers in the ball popper assembly, and created a connection that triggered the ‘ball lock’ message. The solution to this was to remove the bent wire and replace with a 3/32” x 1/2” mini dowel, which is a replacement part that is on the Marco Specialities website (https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/20-9314-7), but not available in the UK. As such, we sourced a custom one from Accu.co.uk.

Vivienne

Nuts, just shows the quality that comes out of Williams Amusements.
I'm sure you'd get that part over here but probably as part of a kit for the popper/vuk

 

[VeeMonroe]

Nuts, just shows the quality that comes out of Williams Amusements.

Well, the FT arrived with a persistent ball jam in the left inlane, which turned out to be due to the 3" (!) rubbers on the slingshots...

I'm still finding (and replacing) wrong-sized rubbers on the various posts - luckily, most of them have negligible gameplay significance...

On the upside, I don't think I would be as interested in vintage pin repair if I hadn't been thrown in at the deep end! My big Xmas project is, hopefully, going to be making a repro fish topper for my FT - so WATCH THIS SPACE!!!

 

[Moonraker]

My big Xmas project is, hopefully, going to be making a repro fish topper for my FT - so WATCH THIS SPACE!!!

I've got a spare fish if you want one... just the fish only... literally just the fish, no board, no coils, no wiring.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I've got a spare fish if you want one... just the fish only... literally just the fish, no board, no coils, no wiring.

Thanks Unfortunately, I've already remortgaged my house to buy a rubber fish (literally, just the fish) off eBay. I've also sourced a plastic dome and some shell decals from Ministry of Pinball.

The only bits I don't have are the lure (which I'm going to order from an online tackle shop), a custom backing poster, a wooden board and all the various wires, screws, LEDs and solenoids. I'm planning to try to get all those on order this week, so that they arrive in time for the Xmas break.

I actually bought the Fish Tales knowing it was missing the topper and also knowing there were instructions on how to build a new one on the internet: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/guide-build-fish-tales-topper-from-scratch

 

[VeeMonroe]

So... my Fish Tales has just acquired a Flyland Designs acrylic backglass.

You can see the plastic dome sitting on the top of the pin - waiting for me to make the new fish topper.

 

[Robbie]

Thanks Unfortunately, I've already remortgaged my house to buy a rubber fish (literally, just the fish) off eBay. I've also sourced a plastic dome and some shell decals from Ministry of Pinball.

The only bits I don't have are the lure (which I'm going to order from an online tackle shop), a custom backing poster, a wooden board and all the various wires, screws, LEDs and solenoids. I'm planning to try to get all those on order this week, so that they arrive in time for the Xmas break.

I actually bought the Fish Tales knowing it was missing the topper and also knowing there were instructions on how to build a new one on the internet: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/guide-build-fish-tales-topper-from-scratch

Hi, I ordered a decal to go behind the fish from @xianek and its really nice quality. I also have a image file from someone on Pinside if you wanted to print your own.
Rob

 

[Shaunyman]

It was a complete p**s nuisance to fit the new dowel pin. We first tried fitting it without removing the solenoid assembly because the screws were rusted in. Eventually, after a lot of fiddling, my husband managed to detach the solenoid assembly. I then held the assembly while he hammered the dowel pin. It took ages to hammer it in, during which we thought it didn’t fit and considered WD40. Eventually, we got it in and - cross fingers - have finally fixed the fault.

Most of the fiddling around only needed one person, so I took the opportunity to try to clean the extensive rust off the underside of the lockdown bar using tin foil and white wine vinegar. It was not as successful as I’d hoped.

BEFORE



View attachment 153939

AFTER
View attachment 153940

The rubber on the base of the lockdown bar (the ‘beer seal’) is badly degraded. It’s also completely the wrong size - I think it should be a 20.5” and only extend part of the way along the bar. Ours extends right to the edge of the bar and is curled slightly at the corner - it looks like it’s designed for a wide body pin.

If you want to remove rust you should get some phosphoric acid. I know is sounds like it would be dangerous but its it used in very small quantities in soft drinks to give them a tang. If you search on it you can buy 5l tubs that you then dilute with water. After a good soak the rust is completely removed - not just gone a bit, it is chemically removed to leave bare metal. I use in pinball restoration all the time - It also does not appear to damage plastic or rubber parts, but it does attack/remove most paints. I have done several lock down bars like your over the years.

 

[VeeMonroe]

If you want to remove rust you should get some phosphoric acid. I know is sounds like it would be dangerous but its it used in very small quantities in soft drinks to give them a tang. If you search on it you can buy 5l tubs that you then dilute with water. After a good soak the rust is completely removed - not just gone a bit, it is chemically removed to leave bare metal. I use in pinball restoration all the time - It also does not appear to damage plastic or rubber parts, but it does attack/remove most paints. I have done several lock down bars like your over the years.

Thanks for the suggestion I've bought a 1kg of citric acid powder, based on a previous recommendation, but I was planning to powder coat at some point and, apparently, the powder-coating company strips the armour/legs/bars before coating so it's unclear whether it's worth preparing the lockdown bar any further at this point...

Hi, I ordered a decal to go behind the fish from @xianek and its really nice quality. I also have a image file from someone on Pinside if you wanted to print your own.
Rob

I'll PM you and @xianek

 

[AlanJ]

The best rust remover i’ve used is evapo-rust. it’s not an acid so is a lot nicer to use, also it is reusable many times, so works out cheaper than you’d imagine based on its relatively high purchase price. It works on a very different method to other treatments: chelation.

The Best Rust Remover is Evapo-Rust® - No Scrubbing | CRC

CRC's Evapo-Rust® Heavy Duty Rust Remover is simple to use, reusable, and produces great results. No scrubbing. Just soak, rinse, and reuse!

www.evapo-rust.com

 

[VeeMonroe]

I know this isn’t the most important thing I could do to my Fish Tales, but I added a lighted bass mod…

He’s currently connected to the GI and I’m going to run some tests to make sure he doesn’t impede the ball anywhere.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Also posted in Technical Help for wider visibility.

Our Fish Tales is occasionally launching two balls instead of one. It also, sometimes, auto-launches a ball immediately after drain (and the game carries on as though the drain didn’t happen). When it auto-launches after a drain, the colour LCD shows the score in dual-colours - as though the colours are setup for different text than what is showing (if that makes any sense).

Any ideas?