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Dished Inserts - has anyone used playfield-protectors.com?

andy

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Inspired by @Neil McRae ’s bargain Alien Poker, I’m going to dig out mine and actually play it for the first time since I bought it a couple of years ago!

It’s in pretty good condition but the inserts are all dished. I was thinking of getting a playfield protector to deal with this, which leads to the following questions:
Any thoughts appreciated!

Andy
 
Hi Andy
I have 4 protectors ready to go but have not had time to install, however I have played games on several and find them quite good. Some people say they play different and that the ball spins on it but I have played a Fish tales with one on and one on a Nitro Ground Shaker ( I owned this particular game without a protector) and found it good to play.

I think it may come down to the individual and how they feel it plays with one on.

Clive
 
Inspired by @Neil McRae ’s bargain Alien Poker, I’m going to dig out mine and actually play it for the first time since I bought it a couple of years ago!

It’s in pretty good condition but the inserts are all dished. I was thinking of getting a playfield protector to deal with this, which leads to the following questions:
Any thoughts appreciated!

Andy

Ive had a few from playfield protectors and they are a pretty good company.
Had an issue with one not fitting too well in one section and they took on board and rectified the fit and sent me a new one.
They pack them well and send pretty quick.
 
My paragon has dished inserts. I fitted a playfield protector. Cured the issue
 
When you say the inserts are “dished” what exactly do you mean by that?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
When you say the inserts are “dished” what exactly do you mean by that?

They have sunk down in the middle so they no longer provide a flat path for the ball to travel.

I’ve always assumed it’s caused by having a hot lightbulb under them warming up the plastic and then having a heavy ball bearing pushing down on them, but as this is true of all games as to why it only affects some not others is presumably due to a variety of causes.

Contributing factors might include if the game was operated in a hot climate, or left switched on for hours on end over a period of years, or had relatively large inserts to start with, or the thickness of the plastic used by the manufacturer was thinner than than usual for some reason.
 
A word of warning Andy

I have playfield protectors fitted to my Jungle Lord, Flash, Warlok and Bally Playboy
I would have fitted one to my Alien Poker but they were not available for that game at the time - I will be ordering one now

In general I'm very pleased with them
They solved the problem of dished inserts on my Jungle Lord, stopped the deterioration of the poor paintwork on this era of games, were easy to fit, look good (like a layer of clear coat) and in the main don't affect play in any noticeable way.
I do have a small problem with the Warlok one in that I cant get the shooter lane "tongue" to align correctly, so shooting the ball was causing it to jump and return to the plunger every time - I added a a bit of mylar which has virtually cured that

HOWEVER
In the course of a single league meet the playfield protectors seriously damaged the driver boards in both my Flash and Warlok

What happened is that the protectors moved slightly during play (they are not fastened down in any way - they just sit on top of the playfield) and this was enough to cause the pop bumper skirts to get caught under the protector, causing them to be permanently "on"
If it had happened with just me playing, I would have noticed this, but in the noise and bustle of a league meet it went unnoticed until smoke started billowing from the games.
Not only did the coils melt, but the driver board transistors got so hot as to burn and blacken the boards so badly that it took out the flipper circuits as well. It is possible one of the driver boards is damaged beyond repair.

This is due to a design flaw with older Williams games where there is no specific fuse protection for the special solenoids (pop bumpers, slingshots, etc.)
It is a well documented problem if you search on the internet

Therefore when you fit your protector I STRONGLY suggest that you add in fuse protection for your pop bumpers.
You can either do this yourself by adding in-line fuses to the wiring, or there is a more elegant solution here:
https://nvram.weebly.com/repair--conversion-kits.html#
(you may be able to find these at a European stockist I'm not sure - I did buy a few of the kits from Peter Koch of Inkochnito when I was in Holland)

I'm aware that the thickness of playfield protectors has been reduced since I bought mine, so it may be that this is no longer an issue, but to be honest I think these fuses should be added even on games without a protector since there are other reasons why a pop may get locked on, and it is far better to lose a fuse than a board!

Finally to say - this is also an issue with older Data East games, as you can see from the service bulletin they issued:
 

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Thanks for the info @DAD . I had always assumed the special solenoids on Williams games shared the same 2.5a fuse as the rest of the solenoids, but if not then I agree fuses should be added.

This is in addition to the fuses needed on the AC side of the lamp and solenoid rectifiers!

Still, at least Williams saved themselves a few cents on fuses for these games.... :rolleyes:
 
I noticed my earthshaker has a single fuse under the pf next to the pops, is this for this very reason? stopping a stuck pop coil burning out?

strange they dont fix this in firmware as they can detect a stuck switch and just turn the coil off.
 
The other issue with playfield protectors is that the ball can get trapped on the rollover-star cut outs. I have had to dremel a V shape into the protector so the ball can no longer rest there and simply rock from side to side.

I have done this on both Paragon and Genie

Like most pinball mods, they are not perfect and require a bit of fettling.
 
Strange they dont fix this in firmware as they can detect a stuck switch and just turn the coil off.
Older Williams / Data East games have switches wired directly into the drive circuit on the board, so the CPU doesn't control the transistor at all for bumpers and slingshots - which is why they don't get activated during solenoid test.

I thought Earthshaker was late enough to be after the switch (ha!) over to the CPU controlling the slings and bumpers, but maybe not. I know Data East made this change after Phantom of the Opera.
 
If you get the playfield protector, also get the plastics protector set. Even thought the new playfield ones are "only 0.5mm" the vertical mechanics on the ball changes resulting in more ball lift. Or get a load of 0.5mm washers to put under your rubbered post and all will be fine.
 
I have a protector fitted to my Funhouse after I removed the bubbled Mylar, bought from playfield protectors with no problems, I would recommend getting new balls also.
 
I have a few, 5 i think, no problems except maybe when you get obvious dirt underneath them it can be a bugger to get it out. Some been on for 5yrs now.

They sometimes do good sale offers, so sign up to their mail list and keep an eye on their site.

their latest protectors are very thin but tough and don‘t have all the ‘flakes’ of plastic along the edges.

The Next Generation Playfield Protector is made of Vivak (PET-G), which allows us to reduce thickness and improve the edges by using CNC lasers instead of CNC molding cutters.
Long time protection
Balls roll smoother
Protectors reduces unevenness (i.e. unlevelled inserts)
NEW Vivak Material (PET-G)
NEW now only 0.5mm (0.02‘‘) thickness
NEW even less visible
NEW less adjusting of swittches etc.
NEW no swarf
 
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