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Black Rose was resetting, now no DMD

O

orchid

Registered
10 Years
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
57
Hi there,

So, first pinball machine (Black Rose) has been working pretty much fine for its first 5 months, and now unfortunately running into problems.

Over the last week or two I've been getting occasional resets - frustratingly at different points in the game, so didn't seem to be one particular component. A couple of times recently it took longer than usual to boot, and seemed unsteady.

Decided to open her up today and have a look. I went through some diagnostics, checking power at various points - new to this, so following a guide. Reseated quite a few connectors. At one point I lost all power so it wouldn't even try and boot. Quite worrying. Went back in and reseated connectors again (figuring I must've left one loose). Now the power is working, and I can get through a game without resets - however, the DMD now has no power! The DMD board has power (LED lit).

What is my next step?

Thanks

ps - the power readings I took were as follows - I think I took these correctly, but I'm an electronic novice:

TP2 5.01
CPU 4.98
BR2 8.7 and falling to 7.6
 
Hi mate

its worth continuing to re seat the connectors a few more times, to clean the dirt off them. Just one reseat seems to be a catalyst for another fault. It could mean you need to replace the short ribbon connector. I recall when my Fishtales began re setting I reseated the short ribbon connector and i lost half the GI and some coils, reseated it again and lost the DMD then again and it wouldn't boot up. I got there eventually!!
 
Thanks Gaz.
I've given just about everything another reseat, and situation remains the same. Especially given the short ribbon a couple - although I would think it would've been that one when it didn't boot, rather than just the DMD not lighting (then again, I'm new to all this!)
 
Keep doing it mate, I'm talking like, ten times!! If you're 5v is failing then its probably more than a re seat job!! Andy Netherwood has a blurb which he can give you
 
I would check continuity at J101 first. Check for any damage to the connector or its pin header. This connector provides AC to the driver board from the transformer which ends up going through BR1 and BR2. As has been said, reseating connectors can sometimes work, but in my experience with resets i almost always had to pull out the driver board and replace both BR1 and BR2 or the connector at J101 to solve the issue.

As for the dmd not coming back on here is some info from the bible: Check fuses F601 and F602. If they are good, check the voltages at the connector coming from the dmd driver board. F601 is for the +62 volts and F602 is for -113 and -115 volts.


Testing DMD Voltages.
If the fuses are good on the dot matrix controller board, you should next check the power at the DMD itself. Voltages used are +62, +12, +5, -113 and -125. Check these voltages at the dot matrix display, or at connector J604 on the controller board. The pin out is:
  • Pin 1: -125 volts
  • Pin 2: -113 volts
  • Pin 3: Key
  • Pin 4: Ground
  • Pin 5: Ground
  • Pin 6: +5 volts
  • Pin 7: +12 volts
  • Pin 8: +62 volts
If the -125 volts is missing, -113 volts will be missing too. All voltages should be pretty much right at the above specs, or within 10%. In regards to the -113 and -125 volts, these two voltages need to be 12 volts apart! So if the -125 volts is measured as -118 volts, the other voltage should be -106 volts. If they are not within 12 volts of each other, the dot matrix controller's high voltage section probably needs to be rebuilt. Remember the voltages created by the DMD controller card are the -125, -113 and +62. The +5 and +12 volts come from the driver board (if those are missing, and the machine is actually booting, suspect a connector problem on the DMD controller or DMD itself).

Hope that helps....
 
Brilliant, thanks Rus. Well, the fuses both seem fine. However, upon testing the DMD voltages, all seem good apart from Pin 1 & 2, which seem dead. Uh oh!
What do I do next please? Hope the DMD's not dead!
 
This is copied and pasted directly from the 'bible':

If the -125 volts is missing, -113 volts will be missing too. All voltages should be pretty much right at the above specs, or within 10%. In regards to the -113 and -125 volts, these two voltages need to be 12 volts apart! So if the -125 volts is measured as -118 volts, the other voltage should be -106 volts. If they are not within 12 volts of each other, the dot matrix controller's high voltage section probably needs to be rebuilt.
Remember the voltages created by the DMD controller card are the -125, -113 and +62. The +5 and +12 volts come from the driver board (if those are missing, and the machine is actually booting, suspect a connector problem on the DMD controller or DMD itself).

Both the -125 and the -113 volts are the same voltage.
The dot matrix display will not work if both the -125 volts and -113 volts measure as the same voltage. These two negative high voltages should be 12 volts apart. The difference in voltage occurs because of diode D6 (D3 on WPC-95), a 12 volt 1N4742 diode. The failure of this diode also kills transistor Q7 (known as Q7 in all WPC generations, a MJE15030). The -125 volts and -113 volts must be 12 volts apart, or the dot matrix display will not work!

The +62 volts drops to +12 volts under load.
When this happens, check transistor Q3 (all WPC generations). This transistor has probably shorted. Also check diode D3.

The +62 volts is not +62 volts.
On WPC-S and earlier games, the positive DC voltage trace that comes from a very small bridge rectifier BR1 is physically routed underneath resistor R9 (1.8k 5 watt resistor). Because of the heat generated by this 5 watt resistor, and the current drawn from the bridge rectifier, this circuit board trace can become burnt and break underneath resistor R9. Because the trace physically runs under this resistor, the broken trace can be hard to see. If the +62 volts is not +62 volts, check this trace.

The -125 volts is too High.
Another problem is the -125 volts is too high, reading instead -140 volts. The usual cause of this problem is a broken trace on the circuit board. These traces are fragile, and the high voltage section of the dot matrix controller can get very hot, and burn them. Use your DMM set to continuity and check all traces.
Rebuilding the Dot Matrix High Voltage (HV) Section.
If the fuses are good, and the display itself is good (tested in another game), it is time to rebuild the high voltage section of the Dot matrix controller board. But before doing that, raise the playfield and inspect all the connections from the transformer in the bottom of the cabinet. Though a rare problem, one of the connectors may have come apart or became oxidized.

High voltage rebuild kits are available via Andy Netherwood at pinballmania.co.uk for a very reasonable price, but you could just buy a brand new DMD controller board for £69 from pinballpalace.co.uk if you didnt fancy doing the soldering work.
 
You could also send the whole controller board to Andy (pinballmania.co.uk) to test and fix too.
How far are you from Watford? It sounds like you have tested everything but might be worth a second pair of eyes.
 
Just to check, I should be measuring J604 at the board, rather than at the DMD?
Hmm - perhaps a rebuild is in order. I'll look into it, but it may be beyond me, in which case will send off.
Don't suppose there's any way of checking if there's a further root cause so that if I did have the DMD board rebuilt it doesn't go again when I put it back in?
 
Calimori said:
You could also send the whole controller board to Andy (pinballmania.co.uk) to test and fix too.
How far are you from Watford? It sounds like you have tested everything but might be worth a second pair of eyes.
Click to expand...

I'm in N4, so a little ways in an to the East.
One further thought - I noticed that on J101 (or was it J102?) the first pin on the connector side was slightly browned. Any way of testing this?
 
Ah, you are only 30 minutes away.
Yes, I believe you measure the controller board for voltage. I "think" connector pins go brown as they get hot and this heat comes from resistance building up. Different board so probably not connected but worth tracing where it does go.
 
yep, you could send the board off to be repaired. that will cost around £40 . If it were me though, I would just buy a new board. they cost around 70 quid new.
 
Rus121 said:
This is copied and pasted directly from the 'bible':

If the -125 volts is missing, -113 volts will be missing too. All voltages should be pretty much right at the above specs, or within 10%. In regards to the -113 and -125 volts, these two voltages need to be 12 volts apart! So if the -125 volts is measured as -118 volts, the other voltage should be -106 volts. If they are not within 12 volts of each other, the dot matrix controller's high voltage section probably needs to be rebuilt.
Remember the voltages created by the DMD controller card are the -125, -113 and +62. The +5 and +12 volts come from the driver board (if those are missing, and the machine is actually booting, suspect a connector problem on the DMD controller or DMD itself).

Both the -125 and the -113 volts are the same voltage.
The dot matrix display will not work if both the -125 volts and -113 volts measure as the same voltage. These two negative high voltages should be 12 volts apart. The difference in voltage occurs because of diode D6 (D3 on WPC-95), a 12 volt 1N4742 diode. The failure of this diode also kills transistor Q7 (known as Q7 in all WPC generations, a MJE15030). The -125 volts and -113 volts must be 12 volts apart, or the dot matrix display will not work!

The +62 volts drops to +12 volts under load.
When this happens, check transistor Q3 (all WPC generations). This transistor has probably shorted. Also check diode D3.

The +62 volts is not +62 volts.
On WPC-S and earlier games, the positive DC voltage trace that comes from a very small bridge rectifier BR1 is physically routed underneath resistor R9 (1.8k 5 watt resistor). Because of the heat generated by this 5 watt resistor, and the current drawn from the bridge rectifier, this circuit board trace can become burnt and break underneath resistor R9. Because the trace physically runs under this resistor, the broken trace can be hard to see. If the +62 volts is not +62 volts, check this trace.

The -125 volts is too High.
Another problem is the -125 volts is too high, reading instead -140 volts. The usual cause of this problem is a broken trace on the circuit board. These traces are fragile, and the high voltage section of the dot matrix controller can get very hot, and burn them. Use your DMM set to continuity and check all traces.
Rebuilding the Dot Matrix High Voltage (HV) Section.
If the fuses are good, and the display itself is good (tested in another game), it is time to rebuild the high voltage section of the Dot matrix controller board. But before doing that, raise the playfield and inspect all the connections from the transformer in the bottom of the cabinet. Though a rare problem, one of the connectors may have come apart or became oxidized.

High voltage rebuild kits are available via Andy Netherwood at pinballmania.co.uk for a very reasonable price, but you could just buy a brand new DMD controller board for £69 from pinballpalace.co.uk if you didnt fancy doing the soldering work.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Rus - I've been back and had a look at the relevant diode and transistor (bolded above), and D6 doesn't seem to be dead (reading is .537 - which is the same as all similar diodes on the power board). Q7 is also fine - reading around .5.

So, everything up to J604 seems to be fine (from what I've read - as I say, I'm learning this all as I go!). I guess I do need to get a new DMD board. I just want to try and make sure that there's not a deeper problem which is going to kill the new DMD board too! It just seems odd that I had the resets and then they stopped but the DMD is now out. But then, maybe that's very normal - such is my lack of understanding.

Is there any way of testing the DMD itself short (haha) of putting it another machine? I will be purchasing a Judge Dredd (exciting!) on Sunday, so I could swap it into that to test?

Thanks for all patience and help!
 
I have now purchased a second pin - a JD. So I've been able to swap parts to test everything thoroughly.
Weirdly, both the DMD board, and the DMD itself work just fine in JD!
So, it must be something earlier in the circuit - where does the -113 and -125 come from before it reaches the DMD board?

Thanks
 
On advice from yahoo group, I checked the 2 pin connector at the transformer, and it was entirely disconnected (must've been reseating and forgotten!).
Unfortunately, although I do now get a -132 and -119 reading on J604, which is a bit more healthy, the DMD remains off...

EDIT: Fixed!! With another tip off from the group, I checked the J603 ribbon cable and it was the wrong way round! So simple. Now to fix JD lamp matrix issues...
 
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