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Bally Vector - No ball eject to shoot ramp

  • Thread starter Thread starter Vector Mark
  • Start date Start date
V

Vector Mark

Hi there
This is my first time on this site so plz bear with me!
I bought my first & only pin some 5 years ago - the magnificent Bally Vector
It has been working without any problems.....until now!
Now on turning on it says "Strategy Changed" and will not eject a ball into the shoot ramp
I have run all the tests and all appear ok - the solenoid works fine during the test and kicks the ball out with no problem!
Does anyone have any ideas?
Thx 4 looking
Mark
 
Hi Mark. Welcome. I have a Vector too, well two at the moment, you're in good company there are a few fans on here.

This happened on mine and it was a problem with the switches in the ball shooter trough (I'm assuming you have 3 balls loaded?), check them all in switch test and make sure they're detecting the balls are loaded, one switch position has two switches one of which is to the right in the eject lane. Read this thread
http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/bally-vector-trough-issues.2183/
 
Do you know how to do switch tests on it ?

You can test the ball trough switches by taking the balls out, lifting all the drop targets into the up position. You then put it into switch test and drop a ball back into the game. It will tell you on the display which switch is closed. Then drop another ball in and see which switch is closed. Do it with the third ball and you should be able to see if the third switch is closed. This will tell you if the ball trough switches are working as they should.
 
Aha. A new member of the vector brethren. Welcome to the lunatic asylum.

Give us a flavour of how knowledgeable you are please, I am sure that between us we can sort you out. Do you have a manual that lists what number has been assigned to each switch ?

The problem with these old ballys is that when you put it into switch test, it only lists one switch as closed on the display (even if multiple switches are closed) so you have to open them all (raising drop targets, removing balls) to hopefully identify an erroneously closed switch

The good news is that you had a working game. So it probably just has one fault. Hopefully a fairly simple job
 
Yes it only reports the lowest closed switch number, what's neat on Vector (probably by design) is that the switches report 3, 2 then 1 as you roll the balls into the trough.
 
Thank you all for you very prompt replies, I will run through your suggestions when I have some time and report back, I love playing my Vector and we have regular family "High Score" competitions so would love to get the old girl up and running again
Mark
 
Good luck Mark, we of Vector Club don't like a machine down :thumbs:

Btw, another tip you may not be aware of is clean the switches in the trough by inserting a piece of card (only card not sand paper or similar) between them, push the switch contacts shut on the card and pull it out, you'd be suprised of the crud that comes off the contacts that may be preventing the switch from closing properly.

Here's the pic I did of the switches involved. 03 is under the playfield and note switch position 01 has two physical switches - but I'm expecting its one of the 3 where the balls are queued that's causing your problem as it wont start a game like many machines if it doesn't detect all the balls.

upload_2016-2-7_9-32-25-png.26448
 
I had the same problem on mine,and it turned out to be those stupid trough switches,took a lot of fathing around fixing them,but got there in the end,don't give up
 
image.jpeg In answer to your replies:-
I am a logical & practable bloke who can work out cuircuits from a diagram but am absolutely useless at soldering!!!
I enjoyed playing the pins when they where in their heyday and never thought I'd get to own one
I researched many models and went for the Vector because in my opinion it has durability because of the strategies involved in playing it
I have scans of "Vector #1247 Feature Operation & Scoring" pages 4-8 and "VIII. Routine Maintenance On Location" pages 13-16 but no list of the numbers assigned to each switch which I think is on page 17
I have run through the self tests 1,2,3 & 4 and all appears ok - the shoot ramp feeder solinoid works fine then
On test 5 with all balls loaded the display shows 01
If I remove one ball it reads 02
If I remove another it reads 02
If I remove the last one it still reads 02
If I push the "ramp" switch (the right hand switch astyy's pic above) it reads 01
It did flash up 26 once!
I have tried cleaning the contacts as per astyy's instructions
I agree that the problem is most likely to do with these switches
I have added a photo - As you can see I have had to do a repair the ramp switch as a holding lug had broken but I think it is operating ok!!!! How do I test this? With a multimeter?
Also does the switch that registers the first ball look correct to you guys? To me it looks bent?
Thx in anticipation
Mark
 
Mark good going.

The full manual and other good resources are available here http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=2723

I think your problem is with Switch 03 which is the one for the first ball that rolls into the trough - in switch test with 1 ball installed you should see 03. I'll go and double check on my machine, but that would mean a few test games...

Hang on, Switch 02 should be Open when the second ball is removed.

I'm off to test now!
 
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Strategy changed....Ok, this is how mine works.

- Remove balls
- Put into Switch Test mode
- You should see the lowest switch 26 (one of the front drop targets) reportss closed, which is correct when the game resets as the front defenders drop
- As you roll the balls into the trough you should see 03 (bottom ball), 02 (middle ball) then 01 (top ball) report in order as the trough fills

If only 02 is stuck closed then this is wrong but I'm not sure why that would stop a game starting, but it would cause problems later as it would think the ball had drained. In switch test try opening/closing those trough switches in trun and check each reports successfully. Basically the hopefully clean contacts should close and create a circuit when the weight of the ball closes the switch.

As stevebm1 says above these are fiddly to adjust the mechanism defies the laws of physics.
 
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Thx 4 time & info
I have , I think fixed switch 2, I took I apart and "tweaked" it repeatedly until it worked!!!
But I have not had any luck with switch 3
Using your instructions above I get:-
26 with all balls out and the defenders down
The match ball display goes to 01 with the defenders up - so no stuck switches

But when I put the first ball in it still shows ok (not 03 as it should)
If I add another ball then the display changes to 02 as it should
If I add the last ball then it changes to 01 once again as you say it should

Even if i close switch 3 manually the display doesn't change

Is there another element involved to register the first ball?
What does the "diode" do that links the contacts?

Sorry to be a pain but I just want by baby back!!!

Mark
 
So Switch 3 not reporting closed is the symptom causing it not to start. You may have tampered with Switch 2 whilst investigating which is coincedental.

This document is a must read for your machine and covers the use of diodes in the switch matrix
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index3.htm#smatrix

It could be faulty and the document describes how to test. First thing though I'd be tracing the wires back to the MPU and reseating the connectors for the switches.
 
Each switch is connected uniquely to a pair of wires from a column group (6 in the cabinet) and row group (8) as this Switch 3 is furthest from the backbox you may have broken continuity to the next switch in the same row or column.

Looking at the switch matrix in the manual the white/red wire is common to both Switch 1 and 2 which are close by. If you have a DMM with continuity (buzz) test check the wire between these.
 
I've had the playfield up and noticed that Switch 3 only has a single White Orange wire attached indicating its the end of the I2 row wire. The white/red Column 0 daisy chains so other switches would be out if this was broken.

This being the case I'd continuity check the White/Orange wire back - looking at the matrix and the physical position of the switches I'd expect Switch 35 the Left Outlane to be next upstream - check continuity to this and also that this switch works in Switch Test (will need to pop up the Defender drops so its the lowest number closed). On the machine I'm working on somebody has conveniently written the numbers of the switches under the playfield.

My understanding is that this schematic below doesn't represent the physical wiring order of the rows and columns.

Btw, if your wiring is very grubby then wet wipes are good to clean them off to try to make out the colour

upload_2016-7-13_19-33-25.png
 
Good on you @astyy for helping out.

Sorry @Vector Mark but mine is tombstoned right now as I have building work going on, so I can't get to it.

I have had hassle with this ball trough before. In my case I simply had to bend the actuating wire on one of the leaf switches, that cured my problem which developed at a show.

My tips would be

1 sometimes the simplest solution is the best. May well be a physical problem
2 Clean the trough switches, I use isopropyl alcohol as this gets off more grease than cardboard alone. I soak strong kitchen roll in ipa, then squeeze the leaf switches onto this and pull it through a few times
3 then operate the switches manually to see whether they work, even just short them using a screwdriver
4 if the switches are ok, then see if they work using pinballs

If not, @astyy is your man
 
Another luddite suggestion here, might I suggest you check every switch on the game, it will not take long. Just to see whether it is only one that is down

Games like vector have a lot of bare wires underneath the playfield, i had some weird switch problems caused by a short on one of them once
 
I have now fixed switch 3 with a bit of dodgy soldering!!!
In the switch test with all balls out & the defenders up match play reads zero so no stuck switches
On adding the balls it now correctly reads 03 - 02 -01 so all good
On firing it up it still says "Strategy Changed" I can't remember it doing that in the past?
On starting a game a ball was fired into the shoot ramp! Yeah I thought all fixed
Unfortunately when the ball ran down into the trough the machine did not register it and so did not eject ball 2
Back into test mode and all switches where still all ok
On starting a game the ball is not now normally fired into the shoot ramp and never recognises the first ball as it runs into the trough - but all the switches are ok
I am gutted I really thought it was fixed
Any ideas guys?
 
Thx DRD I will run through the switches and boy is there a mess of wiring down there!!!
And thx Carl for the info sheets I hope I am getting closer to a solution & more knowledgable
Mark
 
Welcome to Vector trough - this is the kind of frustrating experience I had, working one minute then everything foobared.

What I found is that testing the switches by hand or rolling the ball in they registered, but in a game it rolls in with less momentum and didn't close the first switch far enough to register. Start a game (with the glass off) and see if Switch 1 will close manually when a ball is in play - it may be just an adjusting exercise now or perhaps raising the angle so the balls roll in with more umph may make a difference.

The working Vector here says 'Strategy Changed' when switched on, I think that's normal (and cool!)
 
These f@@kin games all do stuff like this from time to time.

IFF all your switches are working properly, with and without balls; get some new roms. Vector has 2 roms. Mypinballs can burn them
 
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Do as @DRD said :thumbs:
But something in the back of my mind says check the captive ball switches ,most likely I am barking up the wrong tree , but I think I read something about them 3 captive ball switches :hmm:
 
This site & you guys are Awsome!
I am away for a few days but will run through all your suggestions upon my return
Big shout to you all especially astyy for your patience
I know it's off theme but my Vector shares the dining room with 2 wurlitzer juke boxes (both 18th birthday presents for sons 1&2) a "Showman" one armed bandit, a Thunderbirds fruit machine and a sit down (350 retro games) pub arcade machine!
Back soon
Mark
 
Hearing the "strategy changed" callout on startup has been troubling me

From memory this is a feature on late version roms. I think you hear it in relation to multiballs, so I would pay particular attention to the 4 HYPE target switches that release multiballs, the Vector Storage area (3 lock saucers) or ball trough

As mentioned above dodgy connectors/ dirty pins/ dry joints can cause all sorts of trouble too. You should be ok to remove and reseat connectors in the head - this may deal with the issue on a near term basis, but if you are relatively new to this think twice before going near the circuit boards with a soldering iron as things could then take a nasty turn
 
DRD said:
Hearing the "strategy changed" callout on startup has been troubling me

From memory this is a feature on late version roms.
Click to expand...

The one I'm sitting here does that and it's running the homeroms V5 - 05 comes up in P1 display on startup. Reading the release notes this version contains a lot of good stuff - I'll run these on my project machine when the boards are fixed. The V10 Beta requiring the U2 socket adaptor is a tad adventurous.
 
SHE's ALIVE!!!!

A Massive Thank You to you all - for your help, your patience & your knowledge especially @astyy (what does the @ do?) for hanging in from the very start of this thread

Think main problem was with switches 1,2 & 3
Checked all the other switches - no problem
Checked all visible fuses

Interestingly she no longer says "Strategy Changed" on start up! Could that be due to the batteries being charged up now?

Thx Again I have learnt a lot

Mark
 
The @ flags me and here I am like Mr Bens shopkeeper @Vector Mark

Do you see 05 in the Player 1 display after you switch the game on - if so you have the custom/home ROMs and the game should say 'Strategy Changed'

Glad its fixed, those 4 trough switches are pesky - now get some games in on it :thumbs:
 
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