Complete Baby Doll - Segasa EM

[AlanJ]

Hi, So I've ventured into the world of EM with an ebay purchase of a 1975 Segasa Baby Doll. It is almost working - the vendor showed me a video of it working and a list of known issues.

I've been reading the Clay guide on EM repairs and looking forward to getting started on this. A bit overwhelming now I've got it in the flesh.

First step is to check it over and check all fuses wiring etc.


The playfield is filthy, rubbers are shot and some of the plastics are broken and taped up


Back glass is in very good condition

backbox - score reels top right, Credit conter bottom left - not sure yet what the 2 stepper units top left are for - nor the bank of switches to the right of the credit reel?


Botch repair on the flipper assemblies - the one with the white plastic link gets stuck (no wonder)


Playfield underside looks very nice and clean.


Bottom of cab is dirty though!




Legs are all rusted on the chrome, cabinet not bad


A cut off brown wire? That worries me.............

I'll be asking for lots of help on this one please!

 

[astyy]

Nice project and chimes present. Identifying each stepper type and what is does is pretty essential, they may have labels on or near them, my Bally has steppers in the bb that control feature lights on the pf.

Did it come with the schematic? It's really useful and if not make it a priority to find.

Finally, if you're new to EM circuitry I really recommend reading through this excellent thread;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic

 

[astyy]

My guess for the 2 steppers in the BB would be Match (controlling the top 10 lights) and Ball in Play (controlling the bottom 5 lights)

 

[AlanJ]

Nice project and chimes present. Identifying each stepper type and what is does is pretty essential, they may have labels on or near them, my Bally has steppers in the bb that control feature lights on the pf.

Did it come with the schematic? It's really useful and if not make it a priority to find.

Finally, if you're new to EM circuitry I really recommend reading through this excellent thread;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/em-pinball-circuits-basics-to-not-so-basic

no schematic on ipdb for this. there are some simple diagrams in the cab in italian and some english. they explain some of the relays but not the steppers in back box i’ll keep searching for schematic. this game based on a williams game similar so got that schematic but it’s a two player game but may help a bit



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[astyy]

nor the bank of switches to the right of the credit reel?

They're relays, probably do things like reset, 50 points that type of thing - no labels?

Your machine looks in such good nick you probably don't need the schematic.

 

[astyy]

Was this the one on Ebay in Swindon? If so the description says it comes with a circuit diagram, perhaps the seller forgot to give it to you.

 

[AlanJ]

Was this the one on Ebay in Swindon? If so the description says it comes with a circuit diagram, perhaps the seller forgot to give it to you.

Yes it was. The "circuit diagram" is this that I found in the bottom, it is helpful but not a full circuit diagram

There are others attached inside the cabinet, so that also gives me a clue. Ive also figured out quite a bit just by looking and thinking about what's probably going on, thank you for the heads up - looks like those steppers are match and ball in play. I can see adjustment plugs you can set the replay target, its pretty cool. Ive also seen other adjustment plus to control 3 or 5 balls and also whether you get an extra ball or a replay etc. Will look forward to messing with those.

I've tried manually turning the score reels by moving the relays - all move ok - the credit reel moved ok then stopped at 21 (and here it seemed to also activate a swich, so I think this is signifying no more credits - I suspect that someone has taken the reel off then put it back on in the wrong place, so it just needs moving round.

I think my approach on this is to a) get it mechanically working and b) get the playfield cleaned and repaired. Once I've done those two main jobs, I can look at sorting out the legs, outer cab if I want to go that far.

All fuses test ok - a few on underside of playfield as well as in bottom of cab.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Nice.

I have had 2 or 3 EM's in the past in varying states of repair.

My top tip ....... for the love of your own sanity DO NOT go randomly cleaning or adjusting switches just for the hell of it - unless you know for certain there is a problem - you can cause all sorts of issues. EM 101 .... If it's working then don't touch it

 

[astyy]

I've tried manually turning the score reels by moving the relays - all move ok - the credit reel moved ok then stopped at 21 (and here it seemed to also activate a swich, so I think this is signifying no more credits - I suspect that someone has taken the reel off then put it back on in the wrong place, so it just needs moving round.

Anything's possible, the previous guardians of these machines didn't cherish them like us hobbyists on here. The Credit(=Replay) unit has a limit switch at each end of its rotation to limit incrementing max credits (coins or awarded in game) and disable the credit/start button at 0 (ie no credits). Possibly another switch NC at zero to light the credit light on the apron if it has one.

It's interesting that EMs have no concept of free play, a sign of the commercial life that these machines lived. Freeplay can be set by jumpering the switch thats NO at Credit position 0. Another point, you'll find Replay used a lot to replace Credit, as Replays/Credits could be won in game and the terms Credits implies gambling which was a dirty word.

My top tip EM 102 would be to check all your score reels move mechanically smoothly and the switches at reel position 9 and 0 are opening closing correctly. You wont get anywhere or start games with gungy score reels.

Other than that just log obvious errors, cables hanging off, burnt coil wrappers, mouse nests ... that type of thing and enjoy the ride

 

[AlanJ]

Decided to start with the stuck flipper. The mechanism was getting stuck in, so I took the coil off and had a play with it all to see what the issue is. the plunger is getting stuck in the coil - it looks like the sleeve is deformed or has melted at the far end and is very tight, I cannot get the sleeve out of the coil. May as well just buy a new one £10 part. I'll also order an new plunger and link. Rest all looks ok.



As I'm placing an order to pinball mania, I may as well get the rubber bits I'll need:

 

[astyy]

Result, apparently this machine is a licensed version of Williams Satin Doll - the schematic for which is online here
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2057/Williams_1975_Satin_Doll_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf

 

[AlanJ]

Anything's possible, the previous guardians of these machines didn't cherish them like us hobbyists on here. The Credit(=Replay) unit has a limit switch at each end of its rotation to limit incrementing max credits (coins or awarded in game) and disable the credit/start button at 0 (ie no credits). Possibly another switch NC at zero to light the credit light on the apron if it has one.

It's interesting that EMs have no concept of free play, a sign of the commercial life that these machines lived. Freeplay can be set by jumpering the switch thats NO at Credit position 0. Another point, you'll find Replay used a lot to replace Credit, as Replays/Credits could be won in game and the terms Credits implies gambling which was a dirty word.

My top tip EM 102 would be to check all your score reels move mechanically smoothly and the switches at reel position 9 and 0 are opening closing correctly. You wont get anywhere or start games with gungy score reels.

Other than that just log obvious errors, cables hanging off, burnt coil wrappers, mouse nests ... that type of thing and enjoy the ride

Thank you @astyy - all advice is gratefully received and being acted upon. There is a credit light on the apron, so I can test that out, The previous owner has put a credit switch on the front that connects to one of the coin slot switches, it looks to be wired ok, so I will keep that for time being (maybe forever).

I just did the trial switch on and no explosions!
The coin door coil is buzzing like mad - I will follow Clay's advice and disconnect this eventually as I won't be using coins!!!! I will keep it for the moment as it tells me something right now.

Pressing the credit button turned the motor in the bottom to reset and the reels reset ok.

Pressed the game start and it appeared to start. pressed a few switches and targets to simulate a game and then triggered the ball return and it played out a 3 ball game ok, scores clocked up except the 100's as there is no coil! No sign of a match and not sure the credit reel is working yet. Will do a few more tests...........

 

[AlanJ]

Result, apparently this machine is a licensed version of Williams Satin Doll - the schematic for which is online here
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2057/Williams_1975_Satin_Doll_Schematic_Diagram_continuous.pdf

Hi yes it is! The Satin Doll is a two player version whereas this is only one - but I think the majority of the rest of the schematic will probably be very similar, so It should help thanks.

 

[astyy]

BE CAREFUL doing any work with machine on (which you should anyway) but according to that schematic there is wiring at 240V through several relays, motor stack switches and the bank resets before it gets stepped down to the lamp and coil rails.

 

[astyy]

No sign of a match

It might be switched OFF in the Jones plug adjustments shown on the paperwork. This wouldn't be required if it was frigged into freeplay and unnecessarily keeps the Match stepper rotating on scoring events.

Also it shows an adjust for Replay or Extra Ball which is cool (hence. Balls to Play on the backglass rather than Ball in Play).

 

[AlanJ]

Never believe a label: This is the jumper in the backbox to select whether the lucky number match i active or not. It was set to ON - the left hand side - which doesn't electrically connect to anything. I moved it to the OF position which is electrically connected and hey presto I now have an end of game match working. (Not sure if it awards anything properly yet).

I have fixed the inaccurate credit score reel - basically it fitted on one way or at 180 degrees the other way - it had be incorrectly put on.

The credit light on the apron works, and this goes out when the credit reel moves off the "1" number to a blank. However the machine plays one further game. There are two switches on the reel - it looks like its triggering the apron light ok but the "no more games left" one needs to be adjusted slightly. Looks like the 'bar'' that triggers them has been replaced and is too thin. I could solve by making it a bit thicker with some insulation tape or similar.

There is a shoot again feature that I managed to light up on the game, sometimes this correctly plays one extra ball, other times it seems to get stuck and awards an endless number of extra balls, and the extra ball light stays on - that one could be interesting to track down. Later.......

 

[AlanJ]

Today I have learn't loads about EM machines. Mainly from reading the Clay guide and then looking at the insides of machine, and then by watching what happens as a game is played.

Ive stripped the playfield top bar a few posts and given it a good clean, and cleaned the plastics. Some are broken but I can repair if I can't find replacements. The underside clear plastics have been broken, one has been repaired but broken again - I'll order a clear sheet or perspex and have a go at making a new one. The other has been remade, it's ok but a bit rough - so might redo that too.

Cleaned all the plastic bits and bobs.



I noticed a very burned coil in the backbox:

Second one down - it is working, but I decided to try figure out why it was so badly burned. It turns out this is for the score reel, and surprise surprise! It's for the score reel that currently has a missing Coil !!!! So, what happens is this coil locks on, and is waiting for the coil on the score reel to trigger, which will then switch this coil back off again. As there is no score reel coil, that never happens, so this poor thing is left switched on for the duration of the game.

I proved this by manually triggering the said score reel which did indeed switch this back off again.

Not shows in this picture, but further down is a 5th coil that resets the score reels - it has a number of switches that it triggers, but I've noticed that a leaf on the top switch is broken off and this is not firing. I'm not yet sure what this is supposed to do, but it will probably show up as an issue somewhere down the line. (Maybe it's that shoot again light not going out??)

I had a go at bulb replacement, as usual its not the bulbs but the damn bulb holders. If I though the ones on my paragon were bad, then these are terrible. All loose and corroded. I'll try the 'direct solder' method on a couple to see if I can salvage, if not its the expensive and time consuming job or replacing tons of them - yeuch!

My final job for tonight is to try print the satin doll schematic out - it's a poor quality PDF and needs blowing up in size so I can read it.

 

[astyy]

Great progress, I'm really liking the look and theme of your machine now, it didn't appeal to me initially but is coming up real nice. These EMs are so quirky and as you say you can learn/fix them by just looking at how they work.

Re. coils you may find some on relays with toasty looking wrappers that are ok, some are always on relays used for things like anti-cheat, lock out etc. You'll notice them activate when you switch the machine on. Mine had burnt out coils that had actually caught fire.

Btw, does the mother board at the bottom lift up on yours? On my Rocket III it's hinged and you can swivel it up to top of cabinet to work on it, very handy.

 

[AlanJ]

Great progress, I'm really liking the look and theme of your machine now, it didn't appeal to me initially but is coming up real nice. These EMs are so quirky and as you say you can learn/fix them by just looking at how they work.

Re. coils you may find some on relays with toasty looking wrappers that are ok, some are always on relays used for things like anti-cheat, lock out etc. You'll notice them activate when you switch the machine on. Mine had burnt out coils that had actually caught fire.

Btw, does the mother board at the bottom lift up on yours? On my Rocket III it's hinged and you can swivel it up to top of cabinet to work on it, very handy.

Yes thanks I've noticed the coils that should be on a lot and as you say are 'toasty' - the one that has been taying on too long is 'burnt toast' for sure, but still functioning.

The bottom board is screwed down, might come up but no hinge on it unfortunately.

 

[AlanJ]

schematic for similar machine satin doll. i had to blow up the pdf and it printed in 15 sheets of A4.


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[AlanJ]

So today was a good day - A nice delivery from @pinballmania and I was in business with a score reel coil. There were no new ones available buty Andy suggested I buy one of his used score reels complete with tested coil - so I did (and I'm glad I did - you'll see why a bit later). The relay was easy to take off and connect up and hey presto - I now have working 100's score reel. It was also useful having the whole score reel as I easily figured out that these have a retaining clip (couldnt see this in the ones in the machine), so that saved me a lot of time as I was just about to unscrew the whole score reel frame from the back box - no need, you can just slide out one score reel at a time.

I did some testing and noticed a new problem, at the start of a new game, the newly fitted 100's score reel did not spin round to zero, so the game got stuck in it's setup mode and wouldn't start. I remembered I'd seen a problem on the score reset relay in the backbox:

The top switch will never be activated on as the 'leaf' is broken off and doesn't fit into the white plastic actuator on the left hand side. I proved this was the issue by manually depressing the switch and sure enough my 100's reel clicked round on each activation.

What to do? No spares? Stumped.

Aha!! I took a look at the old score reel I'd just had delivered and saw it had some leaf switches on it. Not quite the same, but the looked pretty close:

So I set about removing the broken leaf and putting on the new one. It was quite a delicate job - lots of switches I could easily upset and getting the bank of switches apart was quite hard as I had to be gentle. In the end I did it and put it all back together:

As I say - it's not a perfect match and it might not last as the contact point is smaller (I may even have it upside down), but it's working for now.

Next, some time spent fitting a new coil, sleeve, plunger and link. Then farting around adjusting it not to be so noisy. AC Flipper coils !!! Hmmm Would be a lot quieter on DC I bet....... I didn't order a new end stop - I should have done, I'm sure a new one would help with the noise?

I had to smile when I came to fit the tilt bob I'd also ordered. There was a nice long tilt wire, but it was too thick for the modern tilt bob to fit onto. Fortunately the tilt bob came with a new wire, but it is much shorter:

Easy fit of course to lower the fixing bracket, but it did make me snigger........ Also I didn't order the tilt wire with the tilt bob - I think Andy knew it wouldn't fit this machine's existing wire, and so he chucked one in for me - Very Much appreciated - THANK YOU.

My Final job this evening was to remove every single bulb from the machine (almost 100) and test them, I now have a bag of working bulbs, the rest are in the bin.

Next job is to put bulbs back in and find out which lamp sockets are ok, which need replacing and which can be repaired. Generally the sockets are in poor condition, corroded, shrunken insulator, the '***' is loose from it's electrical contact tag and many too have a poor earth as the body is loose from the fixing bracket. I'll salvage only the good ones, but there wont be many. This is a costly fix - 80-90 sockets at around £1.50 each, plus the time to remove and time to refit. I've invested in a bigger soldering iron that can handle the big blobs needed on the earth tag; I've also learnt from the lamp issues with my Paragon, that replacing is the best solution. See you in a month or so :-( .........................................................................................

 

[AlanJ]

FU************************K - FOOLISH ERROR. DAMN & BLAST!

Whilst working on the upended playfield late last night, I managed a real newbie schoolboy error - Whilst fiddling with something on the backbox, I inadvertently tipped it over and it came crashing down onto the cabinet. Lots of damage to stuff on the underside...... Feeling very stupid and foolish right now. "Why didn't I just.......", etc.

 

[pinballmania]

If you want to use the old longer plumb bob wire the hole through the weight is easily enlargened by running a drill through it. It’s graphite so very soft.

 

[AlanJ]

First job today was to make a list of all the parts I broke in the 'fall' yesterday - all bits off the single slingshot:

as you can see it got well bent. the coil is ok and doesn't seem to be deformed and still working. I put my order in and also ordered a ton of new lamp sockets.

I tested all bulbs and put them back in - here's the backbox:

Only a few light up due to very bad sockets.

Same on playfield:

2 out of 4 GI lights work - most of the playfield sockets are shot. Playfield itself has cleaned up very nice and bright though.

I fixed a load of stuff today:
1. Playfield roll over switches not working - needed leaf adjustments, one of the rollover inserts was loose, so secured that back in
2. When playing a game, lighting the 5 centre rollovers caused the machine to go into an endless cycle. I found out where that loose brown wire in the cabinet should go, and soldered it back on - this corrected the problem.
3. Disassambled the chimes, cleaned and reassembled. Cleaned the plungers too - two were getting stuck - hence not working. Now all 3 are functioning
4. There is a lot of black greasy dirt in the cabinet. i think someone has been oiling the moving parts on the underside of the playfield and this black oil has spoilt the cabinet, caking everything. I spent hours cleaning off with cloths, swabs and cotton buds using IA. Lots more cleaning to do, but it's a heck of an improvement.

As well as fixing I got a lot of pleasure out off following the circuit diagram and then figuring out the relevant parts in the flesh. I've started to understand a lot of the relays and units in the machine. There are still a lot to figure out, but that will come once I can play a few games on it.

Bracing myself for the marathon bulb socket replacement job. Im in no real rush, so I think I can do a couple a day .....;-)

Got something special arriving tomorrow, so I will be off this project for a day or two.

 

[AlanJ]

replacing 100 or so bayonet lamp sockets is a pain

also replaced the home made flipper links with new plungers and links




slingshot new parts to replace old broken ones


still got about 45 lamp sockets to replace.........

game logic still not working quite right. i’m not sure how it lights the “double bonus” light or the “special” light. i’ve tried pushing all buttons in all sorts of orders to try activate these but no joy. ill have to trace back the wiring from the schematic.

also the top targets score 50 normally or 3,000 when lit. the 50 works fine but the lit option only scores 1,000 so looks like some issue here. that in turn could be the cause of the other issues above......



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[AlanJ]

Well, after a few hours of diagnostics and tracing the wires in the machine and looking at the schematics, I managed to track down the problem with the 3,000 scoring. I'm using a schematic from the closest machine - "Satin Doll" and whilst 90% of it is the same, the 3,000 scoring wiring was colour coded differently, which meant I didn't really know which switch to look at or which wires to follow, but in the end I mapped all the actual wire colours to the ones shown on the schematic, for the 3,000 point relay.

Whenever the 3,000 points should have triggered, the relay just clicked once, momentarily. and started the score motor turning. I first thought there was a problem with the score motor switches, but they all looked ok - and lots of them, so didn't want to mess with them. I then noticed that there was a 50 point relay next to the 3,000 point one. Both of these trigger off from the same targets on the playfield. 50 points if the target is unlit, 3,000 if it is. As the 50 point system was working ok, I looked at it to see how it worked. The 50 point relay clicked on and stayed latched on for the revolution of the score motor. This suggested that the 3,000 replay should also latch on. After another look at the schematic, it looked like the latch was on one of the score motor cams. I eventually found it and discovered it wasn't making contact when it should - so a quick adjustment and hey presto - all working.

I then wanted to fix the "double scoring" and "special" scoring systems - but I didn't know how these should be working. I have no instructions for Baby Doll, or for Sating Doll. I went back to IPDB and saw that there was a 4 player version of Satin Doll - called "Pat Hand" - this DID have a pdf manual and sure enough it explained how the double bonus and special feature should work. This was a massive help and I now knew that the double score feature only comes on the 2nd time you close the 5 central rollover switches, and then the SPECIAL is lit if you do these a third time (in a single ball). Once I knew this it was easy to figure out how to get it going. I also then figured out what the "additional Special" replay was for - this is to stop you getting more than one special in a given ball - i.e. once you collect the special (extra ball or replay), then you cant get it again for the remainder of the current ball. But you can get it again on a new ball.

I feel I have accomplished a major milestone now as I understand what each and every one of the relays, stepper counters, score motors etc do within the machine. I should be able to fix any issue quite easily now.

I did some more game testing and found that the bonus score started on 10,000 points, whereas the lowest value on the playfield is 5,000. Now I knew where the bonus stepper is and a quick adjustment here got the starting bonus correct.

There is a similar issue on the credit reel - this awards another game when the number of credits remaining is showing as zero (it actually shows a blank), I think a similar adjustment will get this fixed - I hope.

 

[AlanJ]

I need to find or make or have made a clear plastic playfield part (this sits under another plastic that is painted). Any ideas how best to cut acrylic sheet? I'm useless at this, is there anyone on the forum who can make replacement parts please?

 

[astyy]

Any ideas how best to cut acrylic sheet?

Bump - I'm interested in this too. The large plastic at the back of my EM is cracked - I was thinking as there's plenty of screws holding it the cracked area could be cut out with a protector in original but slightly larger shape layed underneath. Would something like a Dremel 565 do the job?

 

[AlanJ]

I've had two goes at cutting a bit of acrylic - broke it both times - gonna try a thicker piece of more flexible sheet of plastic.

 

[astyy]

I've had two goes at cutting a bit of acrylic

Done a bit of googling and acrylic is too brittle, you want 3mm polycarbonate or lexan