Space invaders flippers

Body pop

Member
Feb 23, 2015
175
11
18
Belfast
I’m going to try and sort the left flippers on this space invaders and other non working solenoids

So the machine is booting with no sound
The Outhole ,and two sling shots are disconnected

I put two new solenoids on the bottom flippers ,they worked until I put a solenoid on the Outhole (not a new one )
Something in coin door or cabinet switch didn’t like it
Now I don’t have the left flipper anymore
It’s not there in test mode either when holding switch in

I’m back to using the old solenoid driver board ,the rotten dog one is useless

What all should I check before changing the coil again on left side flipper

Is this more likely to be the diodes ,transistors or is there something else I could be missing ? I’ve cleaned the eos and cabinet switch .
The left flipper is wired the exact same as right .
There’s no sign of life at all from cabinet switch
The other solenoids were disconnected because they were sticking on
 

Courtney Blush

Never enough space.
Jan 9, 2016
837
323
63
Birmingham, UK
www.courtneyblush.co.uk
OK...

The flipper enable is fed directly from the CPU board and to the Solenoid driver board. This then goes through a few transistors to switch the flipper enable relay.

If the right flippers are working then this isn't an issue.

The flipper power itself doesn't go through any of the main transistors on the solenoid board.

Check the Solenoid board first for dry joints on J1 pins 8 & 9 and J2 pins 1 & 2.

If all ok then the diodes are the next most important thing to check. Even having one gone can cause some major confusion. There won't be anything at the flipper buttons as it's only switching a ground through to a permanent positive. You should always have a feed at the flippers, taht's why later games have a HV lockout when you open the door, the 43-50v is permanent.

The outhole solenoid Is fired by Q8 and uses the same J1 connector as the Flippers, the circuits are not related though.

Post a few pics and see what the wiring looks like...

Regards

Courtney
 
OP
OP
B

Body pop

Member
Feb 23, 2015
175
11
18
Belfast
Thanks Courtney that was very good info there
After all that head scratching ,I took the solenoid board out to check the joints and there’s is a couple of burnt tracks

So I’ve put the rotten dog one in again ,I didn’t realise the flippers were permanently live like you say when door is open
So the great news for me is I’ve now got a left flipper

The reason I wasn’t using that rotten dog board was that Im not getting the high voltage on it
So no score boards ,the score boards work with the old sd board so that rules out the wiring
The rotten dog has a light for 300 v if your not familiar with it ,it’s not getting that 300v

Have you any ideas on that ?
 
OP
OP
B

Body pop

Member
Feb 23, 2015
175
11
18
Belfast
So I’ve got a nice original solenoid board for this now ,and all good on that front
The left upper flipper ,I think the diode In it is causing some confusion now
Is the diode the same as the the ones for the coil ?
 

Jay Walker

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2013
1,077
359
83
Swansea, U.K.
Hello,

Do you mean the 2nd switch on the flipper, which simply makes a firing sound? AIR, the switch matrix uses IN 4148 diodes. A short at that point in the matrix can cause false tilts and end-of-ball/game, depending on the condition of the 3-bank drop targets. The left and right flipper switches are aren't both the same number, BTW
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
B

Body pop

Member
Feb 23, 2015
175
11
18
Belfast
Oh cool ,yes the 2 nd switch and that’s what it’s doing ,tilting game when pressed sometimes .I thought because the top left flipper was weak and not staying up there was problem with the switch and I was messing with it .
Not sure what’s going on .
 

Jay Walker

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2013
1,077
359
83
Swansea, U.K.
It was decades ago that I saw this on my own Invaders, but AIR if two of the three targets were down (centre and left) then the flipper(s) would bring up a false tilt, while the centre & right targets and flipper would cause a false outhole switch*, with bonus award, Shoot Again, change of player, ball count, or Game Over, depending on the conditions. There would've been other false switches, too, but those two were the obvious symptoms

The upper flippers have their own high-current End-of-Stroke switches and additional gold-contact 'matrixed' switches, as used everywhere else on the playfield. These need a diode to prevent false switches being read by the game program. If you're not too concerned about the firing sound (because the 2nd switches do nothing else), you could disable either/both of them by opening the gap wide enough that the contacts don't close, or cutting off the diode. The EoS switch, with its heavy contacts, needs to be electrically 'clean' for the flipper to operate. When it opens, the flipper current is reduced by having to pass through the thinner 'Hold' winding of the coil as well as the stronger Power winding. If the Hold winding's broken, the flipper circuit is Open, and it drops down again, closing the EoS switch and repeating the cycle. The flipper 'chattering' like this is harmful, besides being annoying (it'll overheat the coil)

* possibly vice versa, as I say it's been a long time
 
Last edited:
Reactions: astyy

Jay Walker

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2013
1,077
359
83
Swansea, U.K.
That weakness in the upper left flipper may be due to the 2nd switch of the lower left flipper. Bally used to have any extra flipper switched from the main flipper on the relevant side - the main flipper will operate, break open its own EoS switch, and close the 2nd switch to operate the extra flipper. Williams only did this for an extra flipper on one side, their games with two flippers on each side used a different arrangement
 
Reactions: carl lawrence

MartinY

Site Supporter
Nov 18, 2017
614
262
63
Hampshire
That weakness in the upper left flipper may be due to the 2nd switch of the lower left flipper. Bally used to have any extra flipper switched from the main flipper on the relevant side - the main flipper will operate, break open its own EoS switch, and close the 2nd switch to operate the extra flipper. Williams only did this for an extra flipper on one side, their games with two flippers on each side used a different arrangement
Addams is like this isn't it, with 2 flippers on each side?
 
OP
OP
B

Body pop

Member
Feb 23, 2015
175
11
18
Belfast
Cheers mate il have a look at that today .it could well be that
It was at least playing .though switches for middle and right bumpers have stopped working ,the solenoids are there in test
I stuck it up forsale again ,I think it just needs someone who knows what they doing to finish
 

Jay Walker

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2013
1,077
359
83
Swansea, U.K.
Yes, Addams Family, being a post-merger game (and 'Fliptronic' into the bargain), does use the Williams 'Double Action' arrangement, with two contact sets on each flipper button
 
OP
OP
B

Body pop

Member
Feb 23, 2015
175
11
18
Belfast
Jay you were right again.
It was the bottom one causing it ,
If I can refresh your memory u can maybe help me sort the other problem
That diode we spoke of seems to be on the same line as the two bumpersrhay have stopped working ,it’s a yellow and red wire ,I think it goes to coin door too .
I’m wondering now if the diode is needed for those bumpers.the solenoid works In test ,but switch isn’t registering now .
This pin wants to stay with me :)
Cheers Glenn
 

Jay Walker

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2013
1,077
359
83
Swansea, U.K.
Glenn,

According to the schematics, the three Thumper Bumpers, two slingshots, the single drop target and each flipper contact (I was wrong about them being the same numbered switch each side) are all on 'STrobe 4', which could also be called Column 5. Each switch in a matrix layout requires its own diode* to prevent false detection, but the lack of a diode on a switch (e.g. cut off) shouldn't affect the other switches; the one lacking a diode won't work, but the rest of those on the line should. Check if the wire with those colours is reaching all the switches, it's daisy-chained between them. There is a wire on the coin door with these colours, for the test button, but it's a different wire, not Strobe 4, which doesn't appear on the door

The return wires from those two bumpers are on different 'Row' lines, #6/i5 for the centre and #7/i6 for the right. Row 6 is wired with Brown-yellow wire, and is also used for the left outlane and the top right rollover lane. Row 7 uses Brown-white, and is also routed to the Collect Bonus rollover, top centre r/over lane, Clone Chamber and cone tilt

* though the old Bally system made an exception and didn't have any on the coin switches
 
Last edited:
Reactions: carl lawrence
OP
OP
B

Body pop

Member
Feb 23, 2015
175
11
18
Belfast
Great stuff jay ,I’ve got it playing now with all four flippers nice and strong !
I’ve just taken the piece of leaf switch out of the equation with the diode on it ,so when flipper closes it’s not there ,it was hitting it before the eos and causing the game to end
It was a complete mess ,diode May of been on the wrong way
So I’m wondering it’s damaged something else
All I’m missing on the playfield is the top two bumpers now and right slingshot
The wires all look to be there ,the right slingshot solenoid isn’t going in test but the middle and right bumpers are