Selling Advice - Please Read

Calimori

Staff member
Mar 15, 2012
2,342
771
113
Luton, UK
Just some advice to help along the process as I see time and again people asking the same questions on a sales ad. These are not rules and any feedback from the group will have them changed.

It really would help everyone if all sale items are posted with the following:
  • Price
  • Description
  • Pictures
  • Location
Price
If you are not sure how much a pin is worth, use The "How Much Is This Pin Worth" thread here: http://www.pinballinfo.com/communit...his-table-worth-thread.5286/page-7#post-46198

Putting 'offers' with no price might make some people not bother, other people will put in silly low offers or a trade for their Shadow ;) and don't want to encourage people to fight. Most people have a price in their heads of what they would be happy with. If it is too high then you probably won't get the interest. Saying 'I am looking for about £2000 but may be open for a trade or offers' might get you a good sale quickly with no eBay fees and a lot of goodwill and happiness.

If it is a part, or other object and have no idea what it might be worth, just stick a reasonable price on it.

Description
Tell us what it is and how good or bad it may be. The better the description, the more likely people will feel comfortable buying the item but don't use the word MINT as it was banned ;). Understand that your opinion might not match others.

Pictures
For a pin, take at least one picture of:
  • Top of playfield - glass off
  • Bottom of playfield - glass off
  • Underside of playfield
  • Bottom of cabinet
  • Front of backbox
  • Inside backbox showing boards
  • Left side of cab
  • Right side of cab
  • Front of cab
  • Left side of backbox
  • Right side of backbox
For a non-pin related part, take photos from the relevant angles and check they are clear enough.

Location
Please put where the item is located as a bargain priced pin on a remote island of the Shetlands will not work out as a bargain unless someone can collect it. If it is a smaller item let us know if you will post it and if the price includes postage.
 

RGV

Gone Fishin'. Leave a message...
Aug 18, 2013
850
313
63
Middlewich, Cheshire
I'd suggest more than a couple of playfield shots - Its one of the most important areas to most people (Heck its what we're playing the game on after all) and it'll prevent misunderstandings about condition if you've got good close-up shots of the places on your pin that usually get the most wear.

Even if these areas DO have wear you'll likely get interest anyway and doing it this way will likely give you a rep as a fair and above-board seller for the future.

I'd also suggest a shot of the DMD (If appropriate to your machine) with the credit count/ "Free Play" wording shown to highlight any credit dot (or lack of same). Include it in the backbox front shot and save a photo :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Calimori

JT.

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2011
2,322
929
113
North West UK
www.pornhub.com
I saw some posts on the a TOM for sale thread today that I'm not sure I agree with, so maybe some guidance on buying advice too. From experience, a few words of encouragement etc are pretty nice to see when you're selling, but I'm not sure for sale posts are the right place to offer your own (lower) opinion of the valuation of a pin - that's surely what the valuation sticky is for. I know I would not be too happy if that happened to one of my for sale threads anyway.
 

Steve

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2011
758
255
63
Maldon,Essex
I saw some posts on the a TOM for sale thread today that I'm not sure I agree with, so maybe some guidance on buying advice too. From experience, a few words of encouragement etc are pretty nice to see when you're selling, but I'm not sure for sale posts are the right place to offer your own (lower) opinion of the valuation of a pin - that's surely what the valuation sticky is for. I know I would not be too happy if that happened to one of my for sale threads anyway.
I thought the same too. The poor guy has put his machine up for sale and we're pulling it apart?

Why don't we do the same as on the German pinball forum? All for sale posts are locked and you have to pm the seller to get details etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: geardownthreegreens

replicas

Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
9,666
3,821
113
Lancashire
I thought the same too. The poor guy has put his machine up for sale and we're pulling it apart?

Why don't we do the same as on the German pinball forum? All for sale posts are locked and you have to pm the seller to get details etc.
+1
Sounds a way better way to go about things.
 
OP
OP
Calimori

Calimori

Staff member
Mar 15, 2012
2,342
771
113
Luton, UK
I have been PM'd about this sort of thing before and it sounds like the people posting so far are in agreement that someone our opinions are not required in a for sale thread. If the person has over priced it, they won't sell it, we don't need to be over pushing it.
 

cooldan

i like pizza
Jul 21, 2011
6,456
3,978
113
49
Ealing, London
meh.

i think you guys are too sensitive. there's nothing wrong with a bit of personal opinion, for me that's what makes a place like this a community rather than a faceless auction site. surely people need to grow thicker skins, a sort of pinhead evolutionary tactic. i've learned so much from reading personal opinions about price and condition on this site and would hate to see any of that lost because of any site rules. i reckon we should keep things as they are, i appreciate the fact that this site is moderated with a relaxed style, and would say to any sellers or buyers that if they can't stand to hear what public opinion says about their sale or purchase then they're in the wrong place and should instead go to ebay or somewhere else, maybe even get a better price there: anyone joined up to this site is a pinhead and as such their opinions are valid on pinball topics imo, more so than any random ebayer. if it's too expensive or the condition is crappy then so long as the dialogue is kept pleasant, i don't see any problem with people calling them out on it. they don't like it, they can sell elsewhere. but if they can cope with it, and adjust their prices accordingly, then will get the respect of the membership because of it.



gif man inhaling from paper bag.gif
 

Steve

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2011
758
255
63
Maldon,Essex
Nothing to do with being sensitive Dan, I thought we wanted to encourage people to sell their pins on this forum? If we give sellers a hard time and tell them their pin is crap/too dear/worn out/undesirable etc. they are going to say - screw that I'm putting it on eBay and avoid all this hassle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMP

cooldan

i like pizza
Jul 21, 2011
6,456
3,978
113
49
Ealing, London
exactly my point Sergeant. so we either accept that this is a forum and so opinions are all welcome (so long as not racist or hateful etc) or we say no opinions needed, pms to the seller. which, i agree, is also a valid way to to it.

but we can't have a forum with public comments allowed only if they're positive, that would be a negative step for me in a society that has already evolved towards voting and referendums and all that stuff.
 

johnwhitfield

Site Supporter
Jul 21, 2011
2,563
1,391
113
48
new cross
Remind me again Dan, did we point out to everyone that Freddie was a crap game?;) Surely we must have?

I can understand that sellers would be frustrated with negative comments but when you are selling something for the price of a car then maybe you should take the rough with the smooth? I did feel a bit sorry for the TOM seller but the trap door was in a shocking condition. Still think you would be very lucky to find any TOM for under 2k at the moment and if he's had it and not used it for 10 years then it's still a very good return at those prices.:)
If we stop all comments then potentially we do get into a situation where our friends at PP etc stick crap machines on here at really over inflated prices. Net result some newbie is bound to get stung sooner or later. Think about all the really overpriced machines that hit the bay and gumtree. If we start seeing Popeye's cropping up here for 2 grand then that can't be a good move.

One of the things I dislike about Pinside is the constant undertow of people talking up the value of their machines and I'd hate to see this forum go down a similar route. Got to be some middle ground somewhere. (Obviously this doesn't apply to any machines I want to sell in the future as ID4 is clearly now a 10k machine)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Judge Dreads

JT.

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2011
2,322
929
113
North West UK
www.pornhub.com
Nothing to do with being sensitive Dan, I thought we wanted to encourage people to sell their pins on this forum? If we give sellers a hard time and tell them their pin is crap/too dear/worn out/undesirable etc. they are going to say - screw that I'm putting it on eBay and avoid all this hassle.
Agreed and + 1 in support of blocking comments in for sale threads.

I think the open section of the forum caters well for the discussions on price and condition, so we don't risk loosing the useful stuff that comes out of that which Dan referred to. But I don't see why we should expect people to put a price on a pin, but then reserve the right to hijack a thread and take that price apart. If we do that, people won't grow a thicker skin, they just won't post for sale ads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steve

Steve

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2011
758
255
63
Maldon,Essex
Good call. I don't think we should try and stifle healthy debate on a particular machine, I just think constant comments on a 'for sale' thread makes it messy and hard to find real info.

If I was interested in the TOM but wanted advice from members on here I would post a new thread along the lines of: 'Thinking of buying the TOM for sale, any advice please', No buyer can argue with that, it keeps the sale thread clean and we can all offer our opinions on price,condition, etc.

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal but I don't want to drive potential sales ads away from here and over to eBay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sgt GrizZ and JMP

JMP

Site Supporter
Aug 12, 2011
2,702
966
113
48
Lancashire
Noted this for a while now after it was highlighted to me months ago by some, who now don't intend advertising their machines for sale here. This can't be a good thing and is what ****ed me off about Nigel's machine sales after I recommended this place to him, albeit I appreciate opinions were actually sought on that one.... :confused:

Have also noted people join the forum to sell a machine, got drawn over the coals and not post again. Not great. Ebay next time?

Two other forums I'm a member of don't allow these kind of comments in a for sale thread for exactly the reasons stated above. Views on condition and price (like in the ToM thread) vary too much, this type of thing and how much you could buy one for years ago (!) just don't belong in someone's for sale thread IMO. That Tom thread reads like it was in the 'how much is this table worth' thread.....!

It's healthy to debate and good to highlight things, give advice etc. but there's other threads for that and there's a very good PM/conversation feature here to point things out to a seller or negotiate through.

Appreciate what you've said above Dan, but if the truth (as you or anyone else sees it) goes and did 'hurt' as such, is it worth it at the expense of putting people off using this place to buy and sell machines? As above, the public 'truth or opinion' is too subjective and should therefore be avoided, let potential buyers make their own opinions and seek advice from others here or elsewhere if needed....?
 
Last edited:

Paul

Staff member
Oct 5, 2012
7,566
2,830
113
Birmingham/Bristol
www.pinballinfo.com
Problem is, as has been mentioned before, it's difficult to please everyone :D

So - We can either have this place be totally honest and allow good points and bad, or we can effectively allow people to post a "private sale" and accept PM's only.

In my opinion, we can end up like Ebay, where we all look at something, and bitch about it in private, or these kind of things get posted in a thread, and the seller has to be a little thick skinned about it.

When Paul originally mailed me to ask for access, in my reply i did say that he should be prepared to put up with the occasional retort where people will probably post warnings as he has no previous history, and there have been issues here in the past with machine condition. Post lost of pictures and be honest"

Well he did, and was really good with Pictures, however instead of the expected, all that he got was people having a go at the price Vs the condition.

To be honest...and a personal opinion... I would rather have the discussion in the open - something may well be worth £1800, however if it has specific damage which devalues it then the seller should be prepared to take this into account of the price, or if they are adamant that they want £2500, they should be prepared to be patient move it to a medium where they might get the money they require - however it will cost them in fees... It's a trade off as we all know!!! Are we on the "side" of the buyer or the seller?? Well both, to be fair!

The idea of the for sale forum is that people can buy/sell/trade their machines etc at a reasonable non-ebay-inflated price (with no enforced fees), and the buyer can be more sure of the condition of it and not have to buy blind - a great advantage as you don't really know what you are getting.

If i was selling something in poor condition, i would be expecting to drop the price and not expect "average prices" for it.... to use the car allergy as used before, if I buy a 3 year old car with dents in every single panel should i not expect to discuss this with the seller and drop the price accordingly???
 

Paul

Staff member
Oct 5, 2012
7,566
2,830
113
Birmingham/Bristol
www.pinballinfo.com
Views on condition and price (like in the ToM thread) vary too much, this type of thing and how much you could buy one for years ago (!) just don't belong in someone's for sale thread IMO.
I agree with the "how much you could get one of these 3 years ago" comment, however again IMO, comments about condition Vs price are perfectly valid. If i was trying to sell a trashed popeye for £2k thats one thing, if i was trying to sell a trashed Popeye for £150 then you can bet that most of the comments wouldn't be about the condition, it would be "it may be a popeye however for £150 it's a steal"....

Unless it's a complete bargain, people will always want to haggle over price/condition. It's human nature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Judge Dreads

cooldan

i like pizza
Jul 21, 2011
6,456
3,978
113
49
Ealing, London
This is a very constructive thread. It feels to me like we're all having a pint in the pub, and while we don't all agree, everyone respects each other's opinions.

I'm starting to see the other side of the argument now as it's been well explained by Steve and JMP in particular. At the end of the day it's gonna be Paul's call as he set this place up, so I'll happily go along with any rules that get made.
 

mission65

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2013
1,281
657
113
Kent
Problem is, as has been mentioned before, it's difficult to please everyone :D

So - We can either have this place be totally honest and allow good points and bad, or we can effectively allow people to post a "private sale" and accept PM's only.

In my opinion, we can end up like Ebay, where we all look at something, and bitch about it in private, or these kind of things get posted in a thread, and the seller has to be a little thick skinned about it.

When Paul originally mailed me to ask for access, in my reply i did say that he should be prepared to put up with the occasional retort where people will probably post warnings as he has no previous history, and there have been issues here in the past with machine condition. Post lost of pictures and be honest"

Well he did, and was really good with Pictures, however instead of the expected, all that he got was people having a go at the price Vs the condition.

To be honest...and a personal opinion... I would rather have the discussion in the open - something may well be worth £1800, however if it has specific damage which devalues it then the seller should be prepared to take this into account of the price, or if they are adamant that they want £2500, they should be prepared to be patient move it to a medium where they might get the money they require - however it will cost them in fees... It's a trade off as we all know!!! Are we on the "side" of the buyer or the seller?? Well both, to be fair!

The idea of the for sale forum is that people can buy/sell/trade their machines etc at a reasonable non-ebay-inflated price (with no enforced fees), and the buyer can be more sure of the condition of it and not have to buy blind - a great advantage as you don't really know what you are getting.

If i was selling something in poor condition, i would be expecting to drop the price and not expect "average prices" for it.... to use the car allergy as used before, if I buy a 3 year old car with dents in every single panel should i not expect to discuss this with the seller and drop the price accordingly???
Great post, I looked at the Tom and had no idea of value and so liked the advise on price, but then it started becoming a discussion post, maybe if people kept it to price and why and then refer to posts like this for a more varied discussion .
 

Paul

Staff member
Oct 5, 2012
7,566
2,830
113
Birmingham/Bristol
www.pinballinfo.com
This is a very constructive thread. It feels to me like we're all having a pint in the pub, and while we don't all agree, everyone respects each other's opinions.

I'm starting to see the other side of the argument now as it's been well explained by Steve and JMP in particular. At the end of the day it's gonna be Paul's call as he set this place up, so I'll happily go along with any rules that get made.
Hey, I'll go with the majority - It's not just my place ya know :D I'm just the custodian ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Calimori

JMP

Site Supporter
Aug 12, 2011
2,702
966
113
48
Lancashire
This is a very constructive thread. It feels to me like we're all having a pint in the pub, and while we don't all agree, everyone respects each other's opinions.

I'm starting to see the other side of the argument now as it's been well explained by Steve and JMP in particular. At the end of the day it's gonna be Paul's call as he set this place up, so I'll happily go along with any rules that get made.
Exactly, same here. I can see the other side of it and that getting any middle ground would not be an easy task....!