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Please help me fix my multiple minor MB problems

cooldan

cooldan

i like pizza
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
6,456
Location
Ealing, London
ok, i know that none of these are major deals and that most of you could fix them in your sleep. but i'm a spacktard, ok? i've not done it before and am afraid of making it all worse :oops:



i love the game, am still at the stage of playing it every day, getting a new hi-score every other day. but a few niggles would be better off fixed. pics attached, i would love it for someone to annotate the pics with instructions or something, i'm just a total no-marks with anything mechanical.



1 right rollover lane doesn't trigger the switch



i've looked from above and from below, cannot see anything obvious (to my untrained eye) - so what do i do next? are these switches easy to replace? what do i take off from where first? then what? do i need to solder something? how do i know i did it ok? pics below from above and below.



[attachment=839:R rollover switch from underneath.jpg]



2 left popper/jet doesn't fire



this used to come up on the display as 'switch 53' but now i worked out what that switch is for. how do i fix this one? pic from below.



[attachment=840:L popper from underneath.jpg]



3 scoop often (maybe 30-40%) sends the ball SDTM



that can't be right, what do i adjust? i found a similar thread problem online, the people said it should always feed to the left flipper, but mine doesn't. it seems to pick to most inopportune times to just dump the ball, like when i only have one more hit somewhere for something good. grrrrrrr...



[attachment=841:scoop.jpg]





4 sometimes a shot up the right (bride) ramp starts the Frank multiball



the end of the right ramp is joined by the end of the centre (Frank) ramp, so i can underatnd that if a right bride shot starts frank, then some switch just isn't triggering right. very annoying though, as this game is all about delaying Frank until the other modes are all ready and running - here is a pic of the switch i can see on the ramp, just after the two ramps join. any obvious faults? what do i test? where does it attach? easy replace, or not needed?



[attachment=842:R ramp switch.jpg]



5 (new) the test menu now tells me that switch 12 the drac target is busted



wtf? i thought it was working ok, but apparently not. here are pics of the offending switch area from above and below. help please?

[attachment=845:check switch 12 drac standup top.jpg]



[attachment=844:drac assembly underneath.jpg]



_____________________________________________________________

thanks guys. i looked in the manual and found these pages, but don't know how to use/apply them. i'd really love to be able to sort out minor issues like this for myself, y'know?



[attachment=847:MB switch matrix.jpg]



cooldan
 
Hi mate, I'm no expert myself but I'll try and help if I can until someone who knows what they're talking about turns up
smile-1.png




1. Does the switch work in switch test? So in the switch edge test does it beep when you press it with your finger? If not then you could have a worn switch (had the same on my RS recently). Just buy a new one, desolder the old (taking note of which way round it is and which wires go where...or take a photo) and then solder the new one. If it does beep then it sounds like you just need to adjust it so that a ball rolling over it makes it beep.



2. Again, check it in switch test. Could either need replacing or adjusting as above. Also worth checking that the pop fires correctly in the solenoid test just to make sure thats all good. Other thing to check if a pop isn't firing is that the plastic spoon underneath a directly in the middle below the shaft (doesn't sound like this is your problem though).



3. Underneath the pf can you see if there is any adjustment in the way the scoop is screwed to the pf. Might be a case of loosening the screws and moving it about until it kicks out more consistently. Probably worth someone who actually owns a MB advising better on this one.



4. Put it on switch edge test again and try running a ball through there by hand to see what gets activated. I wonder if something is a bit loose and more than one switch is being activated at the same time. Does it happen for a fast moving ball or slow....or does that not matter?



5. Again, switch edge test is your friend...see what happens when you operate it by hand and let us know.



Cheers

Chris
 
Dan



Yep --- top tips from Chris for where to start



4. You may have a switch where the lugs are shorting , they may be physically bent over and touching something, or the switch is miswired. With those microswitches the green wire should go to the middle lug, the white(ish) wire(s) go to the lug nearest the middle one, and the lug furthest from middle should only have diode connected with the silver band nearest the lug.



Like Chris said, switch edge test is yr friend
 
Dan, I notice you are pretty local to me. I have had to deal with a few of these sorts of issues and am more than happy to pop over to take a look with you. Chris has given you some good pointers if you want to go it alone :).
 
I never really understood the switch edges/levels or single switch test thingy. I'll have another look but am deffo keen on a visit from a fellow pinhead to show me the ropes. I'm at W7 3BQ, where are you?



Will try to have a look later today (am only up as baby was crying for a feed and a nappy change)



Thanks fellas.

Dan
 
I am in Watford but often visit an office in Eastcote or Uxbridge, doesn't take long to get in on the motorbike. I currently have Thursday and Friday off work if you are about during the day at all?

If you put it into single switch mode, then it should make a beep noise as well as indicate it is working when you press the switch. The switch is easy and cheap to replace, I think they were under £4 though I got all of my bad boys to work. They are held on by those two screws that go through the bracket into the tinnerman nut plate which is a thing piece of metal with two wholes through that the screws bit into which will fall off and hide in the machine the first time you take a switch off.
 
Hi Calimori,

i 'work from home' :eek: so i am around during the day most days, including this Thursday all day and possibly also Friday, so i'd love to take you up on your kind offer - you can call me on 07730 656 414 to organise something, and then we can have some fun on my machines as well as sorting out what we can on the MB. i've been going to league meets for a couple of years, and Matt's Caterham meets, and shows, so we'll probably recognise each other? i really appreciate it, even if we cannot fix my niggles, at least you can show me a lot of the theory behind those test menus.



menus are still a bit of a mystery to me, i can work the adjustments and i can 'empty balls out' (oo-er missus); i can use 'lamp test' and 'flasher test' and 'solenoid test' and 'display test' for buying, but i have never done anything clever to do with switches or optos or fuses or electronics. i am also **** at soldering, and only have a crappy old iron with a really short cord - gonna upgrade soon to the gas-powered one that Legend was using at The Slam.



oh, and you have to promise not to thrash all my high scores and put your name in :suspect:
 
i just had a little look-see, and was unable to sort anything out, although i could get the right rollover to beep with my finger. couldn't get the top drac target to beep, or the left popper though.



it's now (new since yesterday) not registering Frank hits (that'll be switches 81 and 82 i'm assuming?), and giving me some new error messages as well - something about the coin slot? and totally random slam-tilts when i hardly touched it - so something is certainly amiss. i'm entering the territory i was worried about, i.e. has my gentle tinkering under the playfield made new problems crop up?



could there be a common feature to all these faults that lead to one simple fault upstream, perhaps? how does one consult a switch matrix to diagnose this stuff?



[attachment=850:left coin slot.jpg]



much appreciated Mr Calimori, see you tomorrow i hope!

until then, the writing on the backglass should be read as "IT'S DEAD!"
 
We shall try and see whether the switches are dying, dead or something else. If we need to order some bits we can always fit them another day.

See you tomorrow :).
 
Good luck on Operation Monster Bash soldiers ! Remember .... take no prisoners.



:cool:



Dan make note of every switch not working/having issues and then look on the switch matrix ...you may see a pattern - they could all be in the same row or column. Could help narrow down your problem area.
 
Great to see a helping hand going out.

I am sure between the both of you it will soon be sorted.

Nice one.

D.
 
well, i am super-grateful to Geoff Calimari for his expertise this afternoon. he rolled up on his huge cool black motorbike, and proceeded to diagnose and fix all my machine error messages without even breaking a sweat, like Mr Wolf in Pulp Fiction: 'so we got a body in a car minus a head, and i understand that time is an issue? no problem'. nice guy too! everytime i spend some time with a fellow pinhead, i am impressed by the generosity and knowledge of the pin community
biggrin-1.png




thanks to everyone who made suggestions, it was indeed mostly a case of adjustment and having the balls to just remove loads of stuff to get at other stuff, still something i baulk at. Pete, thanks for the tip, i changed the batteries at the same time.



laters, dudes :cool:
 
It was a good day of pinballness
smile-1.png
. I am quiet envious of your collection Dan and it was a pleasure to help out.



Not all the reported issues were resolved, there needs to be a revisit to rebuild the jets when the parts are ordered. One had broken the metal and plastic (bakeline) armature links which caused the spring to be touching the switch. This was not the reported malfunctioning jet which looks like it was caused by the bumper wafer being high enough that the ball could, at slower speed, hit the top and come to a stop instead of pushing the wafer down, triggering the switch.



Fix blog:



1 right rollover lane doesn't trigger the switch



Switch worked fine but the wire was not proud enough, adjusted the switch seating and problem solved.



2 left popper/jet doesn't fire



See above



3 scoop often (maybe 30-40%) sends the ball SDTM



The scoop doesn't fire out consistently, we increased it's successful return rate but the problem still remains. The scoop/popper metal has a nasty gouge in the top right hand side which is not going to do the ball any good but might have been put there to give a left flipper defection. We smoothed the edge off the gouge and will rebuild the mechanism when some parts arrive.



4 sometimes a shot up the right (bride) ramp starts the Frank multiball



Switch was fine and we couldn't get it to do it whilst we were testing. Looked at frank and found that several switches were sticking, these were adjusted and cleaned so the machine recognises when the table was open and closed and the targets were up and down. I believe these are switches 81, 82, 83 and 84. We will replace these switches next time.



5 (new) the test menu now tells me that switch 12 the drac target is busted



The target was wedged under the plastics as it had deformed. Target and switch worked fine so put a washer as a shim under the plastics to raise it and allow the target to return to open.

Can we heat these plastics up and let the cool flat to regain some shape?





Had a look at South Park which was making a lot of additional noises as though targets had been hit. Checked the seating on the roms which were all fine. Re-soldered a target wire which was hanging and close to breaking, gave it some support with other wires. The game seemed fine after that and seemed in great shape and very clean.





As I only have one to play with and fix at home, it is fun to be able to go over and help out a follow pinhead who has a much larger collection.
smile-1.png
 
Can we heat these plastics up and let the cool flat to regain some shape?
Click to expand...



If you or Dan have got a glass chopping board and a flat bottomed glass dish you can put the plastic between them then heat the dish from the top using a hairdryer. Heat transfers through the dish into the plastic and the weight pushes it flat. Leave to cool before removing the dish and robert's your mothers brother
biggrin-1.png
 
Interesting idea, I would not have thought that.

Dan, do you have this stuff?
 
In regards to the rollover switches, the WPC-95 games (Totan, CV, MM, MB, etc...) orginally had really crappy microswitches that appear to 'gum up' over time. They will work in the test menu under a finger press quite fine, but when a ball comes to roll over it it may only work a third of the time. All three WPC-95 games i have had in the past had this same issue. When i think about it, any machine could get gummed up switch contacts. I just noticed it more on the wpc-95 games.
 
"a glass chopping board and a flat bottomed glass dish......"



years ago i had a glass chopping board - jesus, what an odd idea! surely the first time you wanna wield a cleaver or something, you're gonna smash it? anyway, i got rid of it as it made me nervous to use it with any force. i have a flat-bottomed pyrex glass dish, and also several sheets (all in use) of pinball playfield glass - could we use these, perhaps, or is the heat-transference no good on them?



"WPC-95 games orginally had really crappy microswitches that appear to 'gum up' over time....."



so Russ, would you recommend replacing these as and when, or doing a load at once? they cost about £1-£3 a pop, so obviously not all them them or that would cost a fortune and take forever, but all the rollovers?
 
i have a flat-bottomed pyrex glass dish, and also several sheets (all in use) of pinball playfield glass - could we use these
Click to expand...



That should work
smile-1.png




would you recommend replacing these as and when, or doing a load at once?
Click to expand...



I think the old saying of "If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it" applies here
wink-1.png
 
I agree with the aint broke dont fix philosophy with pins. If you supect a dodgy switch, test with the ball and not your finger. If the switch doesnt make contact when the ball rolls over it or it only makes contact half the time, i would replace it.
 
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