In Progress Moose Shack

Neil McRae

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wow, looks great and I looked at this type of build but it was pricey and took a long time for build, wondering if a higher height log cabin with a mezz level in it might have been a better option. not that you can change now of course. How are you insulating? for something that size the insulation will be about 10K I'd have thought?
 

mufcmufc

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wow, looks great and I looked at this type of build but it was pricey and took a long time for build, wondering if a higher height log cabin with a mezz level in it might have been a better option. not that you can change now of course. How are you insulating? for something that size the insulation will be about 10K I'd have thought?
Rockwool in the walls and mid floor (I would think) so not that expensive, with a vaulted ceiling it needs to be Kingspan/Celotex and our building inspector then made us put another layer on. I would guess:

Walls £500
Base floor £500
Mid floor £300
Ceiling £1k
 

Neil McRae

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Yes I had two layers in the roof and one in the walls and one on the floor.


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Mooseman

Mooseman

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Waiting for roof to be inspected then will ask re insulation. I’ve read 180mm total. My builder friend reckons 100mm between rafter and 50mm on underside then plasterboard on that as well ?
 

Neil McRae

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Waiting for roof to be inspected then will ask re insulation. I’ve read 180mm total. My builder friend reckons 100mm between rafter and 50mm on underside then plasterboard on that as well ?
Sounds about right from what I recall - I'm pretty sure mine was 2x70mm with a 19mm outside roof and shingles and 19mm inner. I had the cavity of my cabin done with kingspan also. Worth it though as my heat pump barely needs to be on to warm the place up especially if there are games on.

Neil.
 

Poibug

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wow, looks great and I looked at this type of build but it was pricey and took a long time for build, wondering if a higher height log cabin with a mezz level in it might have been a better option. not that you can change now of course. How are you insulating? for something that size the insulation will be about 10K I'd have thought?

IMO I would take his size brick build over a shed anyday.Yup sure takes longer but will be still here in 30years
 

Neil McRae

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Yeah, if only that was true Chris!

I think you need to see a log cabin like mine or Julians’s up close and personal - they aren’t going anywhere.

They are the same type of log cabins in Scandinavia and Switzerland have been around for a lot longer than 30 years. As with anything though, including brick, you need to maintain it. The roof on my shed is warranted for 30 years on its own, the rest of it 10!

Cheers
Neil.


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Jmac

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Insulation shouldn’t be a problem to meet the regulations.
Your walls are built and I assume a 100mm cavity fully filled with Dri-therm 32 insulation which is higher rated than Dr-therm 37.
On the ground floor the cheapest solution is normally concrete slab, damp proof membrane at least 1200 gauge, 100mm Kingspan/Celotex/EcoTherm/Exotherm insulation, 70mm fibre reinforced sand and cement Screed. Obviously you can do the cheapest form of underfloor heating at this point either notched into the insulation or just clipped on top of insulation before the screed.
On the roof you have used 6x2 rafters so fit more 100mm Kingspan/Celotex/EcoTerm/ExoTherm between each rafter. It should be flush with the inside face of the rafter so as to leave a 2 inch gap on the top surface for air flow and to allow the roof to breathe. Use foil tape over all the joints on the inside face. Then cross-line the inside face with a thermal/PIR plasterboard. Ordinarily this is 62.5mm overall thickness (50mm insulation 12.5mm plasterboard). But if you are stuck for head height you can use a higher spec thermal plasterboard by celotex but it’s more expensive.

The price of the 100mm insulation is a bit of a sore point in the industry. Less than two years ago I would buy it for £21.50 a board inc vat. Now it costs about £40. The price increase was due to a fire at one of the manufacturing factories. All the competitors put up prices due to the increased demand and although the original company are back at full production the prices never dropped
 

Poibug

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Yeah, if only that was true Chris!

I think you need to see a log cabin like mine or Julians’s up close and personal - they aren’t going anywhere.

They are the same type of log cabins in Scandinavia and Switzerland have been around for a lot longer than 30 years. As with anything though, including brick, you need to maintain it. The roof on my shed is warranted for 30 years on its own, the rest of it 10!

Cheers
Neil.


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I'll agree to disagree, as I generally do with you on most things Neil.As long as you are both happy all's good.Tho everyone makes the same mistake, all extensions,sheds, games rooms are always built too small, cos we all always fill them?
 
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Mooseman

Mooseman

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I believe I need to use a fire rated board at the top to protect the steel. The rafters are actually 8 x 2 so could squeeze even more insulation in as long as you leave the 50mm air gap. Not sure wether cheaper to go with the special insulated plaster board or normal board plus insulation.
It may be a while to save up for it all lol
 

Neil McRae

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Be enlightened Chris - with logs you can even put a mortgage on them! And agree on space!


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Neil McRae

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I believe I need to use a fire rated board at the top to protect the steel. The rafters are actually 8 x 2 so could squeeze even more insulation in as long as you leave the 50mm air gap. Not sure wether cheaper to go with the special insulated plaster board or normal board plus insulation.
It may be a while to save up for it all lol
Suspect there won’t be a lot in it.

Just watch out for what insulation you use between the floors, if you use foil lined -> any wifi between the floors will be blocked. Assuming you put foil lined around the place you will also have that problem with mobile signal - My shed is a very effective faraday cage.

Cheers
Neil.


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Kman

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I'm new to the Forum so naturally having a browse and reckon this thread is a great illustration of where a passion for pinball can take you...…………..nothing wrong with that and been there! Out of curiosity, what are you doing for heating and power...……………….. if you go all electric those Amps soon mount up with the house as well.
 

Jmac

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I believe I need to use a fire rated board at the top to protect the steel. The rafters are actually 8 x 2 so could squeeze even more insulation in as long as you leave the 50mm air gap. Not sure wether cheaper to go with the special insulated plaster board or normal board plus insulation.
It may be a while to save up for it all lol
You are correct the theory is you are supposed to clad all steels with a minimum 30 min fire protection. This is achieved with the gyproc fire-line plasterboard and flame resistant mastic. The way you have constructed the roof with the timber cross brace directly underneath the steel it would be best to take advice from your inspector on exactly what he/she is looking for to pass it. You will find that although there is a central code that they all should follow it can be interpreted slightly differently from inspector to inspector regarding how it is achieved. The left and right sides of the steel are straight forward in that you can nog out the web of the beam to give fixing points. The underside will be where you need their advice

Regarding the kingspan etc between the rafters it is good that you have some flexibility on how you achieve the thermal rating. You need to cost out both methods ie 150mm between the rafters will enable you to use a smaller thermal plasterboard for the cross-cloaking. 150mm insulation is not necessary 1.5x the cost of the 100mm for example

On using separate insulation and plasterboard instead of a thermal plasterboard I have always favoured the thermalboard simply because it is only the labour cost to fix one board as opposed to two individual products. This might not be case if you were doing the labour yourself so worth looking at costing both methods
 
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Mooseman

Mooseman

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Heating I’ve not decided upon yet. With all this insulation it would be nice to not have any. I do have gas and ellecy available. I’m intrigued by Neil’s heat pump and may look for more info
 

Neil McRae

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Heat pump == AC unit. Cools in the summer warms in the winter. The heat out of it is superb and when it’s on adds about 2 pence to my hourly usage so less than £100 on heatings. Costs a bit more to run in cooling mode but not a lot.


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Kman

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Heat pump (air or ground sourced) ticks the eco box which is good enough alone for some but worth doing the maths on up front cost vs ongoing savings depending on likely usage. I couldn't convince myself a few years ago on a ground install but technology and energy prices keep changing so no idea where I'd conclude now. No doubt about it that quality of insulation makes a huge difference ……….so you're off to a good start.
 
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