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Homepin Pinball Presents: > 5....

@Homepin

I wish you well with your venture .

May I ask, why don't you just use tried and tested wpc circuit boards from the 1990s ?

I know that rottendog faces quality control issues, but it shows that these 1990s era boards can be remanufactured today.

Many folk would agree that anything connected to the Internet or to a wifi network or involving software updates is far, far less reliable than a 1990s wpc mpu board

I have seen various new pinball manufacturers have all manner of problems with boards they have developed in house. Stern, Heighway, the AFMR guys. Surface mounted components are a nightmare to repair. The Stern boards are unvelievably expensive when they go wrong. The Stern node boards are nightmares and go wrong within weeks ...

In the low volume car or custom motorbike industries it is perfectly normal to buy tried and tested engines, gearboxes etc off the shelf. Customers are concerned about the visuals, the concept, the design of the bodywork, the paint jobs, the ergonomics .. They are far less bothered about whether the engine is a 30 year old design

That old Williams technology worked. It was used commercially in hundreds of thousands of games worldwide . It has stood the test of time. We know what parts are likely to fail. They can be easily repaired. And a number of the best rated machines of all time still use this technology ... TZ, MM, TAF etc etc.

I understand that modern users may expect better sounds and displays than say an Addams Family might use. But why has noone just used wpc boards with updated sound card and display drivers ?
 
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Hi @DRD,

Homepin actually does make replacement boards for the WPC089, usually in batches of 100 pcs and we sell more than we can make. All of the replacement boards we manufacture are a substantial part of Homepin's ongoing business and it's where Homepin started 10 years ago.

We are well versed in the problem areas and our new board set has been developed over four years and been through many iterations to get to where we feel very sure our boardset will stand the test of time. It is almost all through hole parts with surface mount only used where the components are simply not made in through hole so no choice. Remember that we will also supply schematic diagrams but I can assure you that our circuitry is exceptionally basic. We have aimed for SIMPLE and RELIABLE over "flash Harry" modern.

Part of the problem (but not all) with the Stern node boards is the complete lack of any service information, not just the surface mount parts issue. (I have to be careful as Swinks will "call me out" for bagging Stern now hahahahaha).

Coupling modern software to the WMS boardset would be a problem I would rather not tackle.

Best to have a close up look for yourself. Hope to meet you at Daventry later in the year.
 
I for one would not buy a NIB machine today if it was to be a throwback to the 1990s using 25+ year old technology - those 1990's boards may be reliable and a known quantity to some, but the world has moved on and the same can now be achieved using far less components in a simpler design, and one that still doesn't need to rely on SM components. I cringe every time I open up the back of my IJ, TAF, TZ etc. There is so much in there - but it was the best they could do at the time. With regards to software downloads and Internet capability - this is the way of the modern world - some of my older pins are connected to my wifi (pin stadium etc) - it works fine. All have various s/w upgrade capabilities by way of ColorDMD and Pinsound boards. All work fine - it is nothing to be scared of. Pinball manufacturers are like car manufacturers, they have been slow to incorporate new technology. All machines produced today should have wifi/internet connectivity IMHO. Even if it was just to feedback diagnostic info direct to the manufacturer - imagine how useful that info would be to them......

When I first heard of the Thunderbirds machine I must admit that my heart sank when I heard it was being built in China. However, now I have got to know a bit more about who is behind it and how it has come about, I am actually really interested in Homepin and their Thunderbirds machine. I think the approach is right, they have 100% control of the design and manufacturing and I also take comfort in the fact that they are not a brand new startup and even better have come from a background of producing replacement boards. Their whole DNA is about continuing the life of gaming machines and I feel this is a good omen for their foray into a brand new pinball machine. I love the openness to share pics from the factory.

Of course it is early days and only time will tell. I have booked Daventry in August so I can see it for myself.
 
This is my Facebook post from earlier in the day since it seems most on here like to see what we are up to.

*******

Now that we are in full production we can start to see some action in the wood room! We are cutting about 12 playfields a day. We use a 3mm cutter and make four shallow passes to get a nice clean cut. Four playfields are cut from one sheet of ply.

A fresh lot of cutters was delivered today - we use one of these for every two sheets of ply - so eight playfields to one cutter.

1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg
 
Having been following Mike's activities for several years and interviewed him a couple of times ( e.g. http://pavlovpinball.com/five-chinese-pinball-machines-are-go/) I am getting increasingly excited about this. It's a touch late - what pinball machine isn't -but it does look fab, especially for the price.

A few years ago I asked if Mike if he had a Whitewater chase light board, and he said that he didn't but he could make one pretty quickly for me. I obviously sounded unconvinced so he said that he would produce one and get it to me in the UK within 30 days. Sure enough 30 days later I had one working in my machine. Not sure what the point of that story is except that it convinced me that Mike is not a bulls hitter and he delivers what he promises. Unlike a certain other person that's been mentioned.

Also, I was once offered a job working on the set of Thunderbirds but in the end I didn't take it. Too many strings attached...
 
@AlanJ

I am not looking to contradict you here. But I suspect that there are quite a few folk out there who would prefer games to be made using tried and tested 30 year old technology rather than this untested fancy Dan stuff

We have all been burned by modern technology that noone can fix. Modern cars are full of Chinese subcomponentry that routinely fails.

Whether it is cars, central heating timer switches, chainsaws ..... This stuff shows nothing like the resilience of stuff from the 90s
 
@DRD has a point in that the pin through hole stuff means any mug like me with a schematic and a soldering iron can give it a go, surface mount takes that away... on the other hand though, the homepin is as far as I can see PTH, just using modern components...

On re-reading they use some SM stuff, where they HAVE to...

Seems the best of both for me, as long as the weak link isn't the bit no-one can work on...
 
I see your point @DRD and I feel the same, yes the quality of stuff these days generally is a lot less than those of the past, but this is because we (as consumers) have driven the price (and often quality) down. I bought a hi-fi amplifier in 1982 for £80. It was fantastic. I can still buy an amplifier today for £80. it's ok it works but it's crap compared to the 1980's one. to re-produce that 1980's model today would end up with a retail price of £400-600.

By all means go for the 1990's design - but expect to pay a lot more for it. Imagine what a producer today would have to charge to make a complete like for like replacement to a Williams WPC089 game? it would probably have to retail at a lot more than the NIB games we get today. Look at MMr - why does it have a different set of parts 'under the hood'?

Imagine your typical power I/O Board - you know the one - tons of mosfets to power all the solenoids and flashers etc. Why? Why not put in 8 or 16 smaller boards that power one item each - then if one goes it's cheap and easy to replace - unplug / replug rather than desolder and resolder a MOSFET. It becomes fixable for many more users - that is a huge cost saving overall.

Why have a central controller doing everything when you could have multiple simpler and cheaper controllers doing discreet tasks? Electronics is getting commoditised as we speak, look at the plethora of isolated discreet cheap boards (shields) you can now get for arduino and raspberry pi processors. Soon you will have your whole pinball based on those platforms. or something very similar. I have no experience of either of these btw, but I'm gonna learn one or the other or both because it's soon gonna be the way to go.

Take matrixed lamp wiring in a typical modern pinball machine. IT IS OLD HAT - 64 feature lights needs 8 X 8 wires. that's 16 wires going around the underside of the playfield (admittedly very efficient compared to one wire to each 64 bulb holders as in the past) BUT today you can do it with 3 wires and a simple £2.50 board. Ground, +5V and a data line. All 64 individually controlled, full RGB LEDS, colour, brightness, etc. all easily controlled. it's for sure the way to go.
 
But @AlanJ

This old stuff was tested. Beta tested .it worked.

New stuff get sold. Bang it out. No testing. Fingers crossed.
 
Todays Facebook update for those not following on FB:
*********************

Things are coming along - there are a LOT of parts in a pinball machine, A LOT!!!

Notice the "real knocker". We use through hole components everywhere except where the parts are simply not made in through hole. Easy for service.

EDIT: Added another pic of the factory floor.

assemble1.jpg assemble2.jpg assemble3.jpg assemble4.jpg assemble5.jpg
 
I would buy through Phil, but does this game have a warranty ?
 
I also like the hinged Speaker/Display panel - no more sliding down the pf glass!
God, this. How great is that hinged design.

Got no dog in this fight but I love the updates and photos. Very refreshing.

On the subject of 80s tech - whilst it's true it has stood the test of time, when other things have failed, that doesn't mean improvements can't be made. The lamp matrix example given above is a perfect example - it was ingenuous at the time, but today there are much more efficient ways of achieving the same thing, or better.

I view it much the same as LEDs vs incandescents. I believe Williams etc would've used them back in the 80s if they were commercially viable. Fading can be solved (see LED OCD), the difference in load is huge (no more charred connectors).
 
We are into production now and hope to start ramping up the speed of build with time. The pics below show a new TAG being 'born' at about 5pm yesterday and also some under playfield shots. These playfields don't have the screen printing under them as they are the final 'test machines'. The full production playfields have the position of all boards and mechs and other useful info printed on them (partly shown in the pics below).

We are a bit heavy on the wiring and using different electronics would have simplified things a lot as far as the wiring harness goes but we have chosen to go the conventional route that most people are familiar with rather than do a node board approach. All wires are labeled with the switch number or board they connect to to make fault finding a little easier.

Actually all the mechs in our machine are autonomous but we still rely on a full switch and lamp matrix hence the wiring.


newone.jpg pf3.jpg pf4.jpg pflower.jpg pfps.jpg pfupper.jpg
 
Really love the updates. I've been following this for a fair while on FB now and it's impressive just how far things have come.
 
God, this. How great is that hinged design.

Got no dog in this fight but I love the updates and photos. Very refreshing.

On the subject of 80s tech - whilst it's true it has stood the test of time, when other things have failed, that doesn't mean improvements can't be made. The lamp matrix example given above is a perfect example - it was ingenuous at the time, but today there are much more efficient ways of achieving the same thing, or better.

I view it much the same as LEDs vs incandescents. I believe Williams etc would've used them back in the 80s if they were commercially viable. Fading can be solved (see LED OCD), the difference in load is huge (no more charred connectors).
Was going to say the same thing hinge design very good high quality hinges too. Good idea that.
 
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