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Getting to the back of the playfield in situ???

PBrookfield

PBrookfield

Resident Uneconomical Repair Representative
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
1,338
Location
Wolverhampton, UK
Alias
Paul
I'm going a little nuts trying to deal with the rear flashers on the playfield of F14. My semi-renovation has been a real slog as I live in a flat and while my wife and I aren't ever going to be on a show of Hoarders, I essentially have no space to remove the playfield and store it while working on it. In addition to storage, I don't have a spare pair of strong arms at my call for physically removing the playfield out of the cabinet without dropping it (and don't have any means of winching it out, like I've seen on a certain Ed's site)

More or less this is manageable with a couple of boxes for storing parts and taking the methodological approach, but this leaves me with absolutely no usable access to the flashers on the back of the playfield, their circuitry or some of the wiring loom connectors. Long-reach forceps, a mirror and a claw grabber only gets you so far - if it turns out I need the soldering iron back there, that's just not going to happen.

Does anyone have any top tips for dealing with this in limited space? I'm halfway to the point of just getting the jigsaw out and making myself a service hatch. The only thing stopping me is not knowing how much that would compromise the cabinet strength.
 
Can't you pull it out far enough whilst sitting in the cab?


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PBrookfield said:
I'm going a little nuts trying to deal with the rear flashers on the playfield of F14. My semi-renovation has been a real slog as I live in a flat and while my wife and I aren't ever going to be on a show of Hoarders, I essentially have no space to remove the playfield and store it while working on it. In addition to storage, I don't have a spare pair of strong arms at my call for physically removing the playfield out of the cabinet without dropping it (and don't have any means of winching it out, like I've seen on a certain Ed's site)

More or less this is manageable with a couple of boxes for storing parts and taking the methodological approach, but this leaves me with absolutely no usable access to the flashers on the back of the playfield, their circuitry or some of the wiring loom connectors. Long-reach forceps, a mirror and a claw grabber only gets you so far - if it turns out I need the soldering iron back there, that's just not going to happen.

Does anyone have any top tips for dealing with this in limited space? I'm halfway to the point of just getting the jigsaw out and making myself a service hatch. The only thing stopping me is not knowing how much that would compromise the cabinet strength.
Click to expand...

Yep - Sys 11 games are a PITA to access the very back of the playfields.

It is possible though to pull the playfield forward a bit.:)

You need to raise it to upright position, obviously remove the balls first, you can then lift it straight up to disengage the hooks from the pivot points and then rest it on top of them . This does take a bit of effort, but position yrself correctly and you only have to lift it up a few inches. Then you can carefully lower the playfield and pull it forward a bit , the playfield will slide along on top of the pivots and rest it on the front of the cab - place a thick towel/blanket or something to prevent anything on the bottom of the playfield getting mullered.

You will then at least have some access to the rear backboard of the playfield.
 
Hello,

Is there a connector for the entire set of flashbulbs on the rear 'infill' panel? I can't recall if mine had one or not. If so, it may be feasible to remove the infill panel complete, with the playfield in the cabinet - AIR there's only one fixing to an upper playfield component, the rear 'Fly-By' metal rail. With that and the screws holding the panel to the rear edge of the playfield removed, I think it would come off.

Lifting the playfield off the pivoting bars does allow it to be moved forwards, in the manner of the later sliding arrangement, but it depends on whether there are fittings underneath at the edges of the playfield, and on being able to use something to support the front of the playfield on the moulding lock/top edge of cabinet. I've been known to make room for a suitable prop (a large diameter spray can, which had the nozzle broken off) by removing components such as slingshots or flippers.

Failing that, are the metal venting screens in the rear of the cabinet held by screws or staples? Not that they'd offer much by way of access, but it's a possibility.

Again from memory, there isn't much to the flashbulbs on the infill; six separate sockets for #89 bulbs, behind their plastic domes, with a protective sheet of card to prevent contact with the playfield & cabinet wiring harness passing behind. The resistors are on those little boards squeezed in at vacant spots under the playfield, and each of the flashbulb circuits is two bulbs in series, F-14 being the final game with them like this.
 
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Sgt GrizZ said:
Yep - Sys 11 games are a PITA to access the very back of the playfields.

It is possible though to pull the playfield forward a bit.:)

You need to raise it to upright position, obviously remove the balls first, you can then lift it straight up to disengage the hooks from the pivot points and then rest it on top of them . This does take a bit of effort, but position yrself correctly and you only have to lift it up a few inches. Then you can carefully lower the playfield and pull it forward a bit , the playfield will slide along on top of the pivots and rest it on the front of the cab - place a thick towel/blanket or something to prevent anything on the bottom of the playfield getting mullered.

You will then at least have some access to the rear backboard of the playfield.
Click to expand...

So let me get the idea behind that straight - you're saying rest the wood of the playfield on top of the pivot hooks? I can see how it would physically work but that seems like it would instantly indent the playfield... I'd have to pad out heavily that part of the playfield as well as the front that would rest on where the lockdown bar would go.
There's no other room for pulling the field forward at all. May need to get some pictures. Essentially there are posts sitting in U-shaped hooks. The playfield either rotates fully in place, or it comes out of those hooks, there's nothing inbetween. Trying to balance the playfield pivot points on top of one of the cabinet hook 'prongs' I am simply not going to attempt, too small and too much of a balancing act for an item so heavy and delicate. May just have to take the risk....

Jay Walker said:
Hello,

Is there a connector for the entire set of flashbulbs on the rear 'infill' panel? I can't recall if mine had one or not. If so, it may be feasible to remove the infill panel complete, with the playfield in the cabinet - AIR there's only one fixing to an upper playfield component, the rear 'Fly-By' metal rail. With that and the screws holding the panel to the rear edge of the playfield removed, I think it would come off.

Lifting the playfield off the pivoting bars does allow it to be moved forwards, in the manner of the later sliding arrangement, but it depends on whether there are fittings underneath at the edges of the playfield, and on being able to use something to support the front of the playfield on the moulding lock/top edge of cabinet. I've been known to make room for a suitable prop (a large diameter spray can, which had the nozzle broken off) by removing components such as slingshots or flippers.

Failing that, are the metal venting screens in the rear of the cabinet held by screws or staples? Not that they'd offer much by way of access, but it's a possibility.

Again from memory, there isn't much to the flashbulbs on the infill; six separate sockets for #89 bulbs, behind their plastic domes, with a protective sheet of card to prevent contact with the playfield & cabinet wiring harness passing behind. The resistors are on those little boards squeezed in at vacant spots under the playfield, and each of the flashbulb circuits is two bulbs in series, F-14 being the final game with them like this.
Click to expand...
I'll take another look for a means of removing that entire back panel, that would do the job, thanks for the suggestion.
There's no venting screens on the back of the cabinet, they're only in the base and they aren't big enough or rearward-enough to make use of. If anything, the biggest access hole near the back is the gap that the backbox cabling goes through... obviously only useful with backbox totally off.
Part of the problem is that at least two of those flashbulbs in the back are either blown or the circuitry needs resoldering. From seeing prior shop logs the printed flexible circuit is very prone to having traces shear off as they are unguarded from physical stress, so that's why I was looking for complete access with a soldering iron, if not for repair but also preventative maintenance.
 
You disengage the posts from the hooks yes,and then rest the playfield on top of the hooks so the pivot posts are on the front side of the hooks..... If you follow...,you can then pivot the the playfield down and the underside will slide along on top of the hooks. A good few inches as much wiring loom will allow. This won't damage the underside if the playfield. And yes pad out the front area where you rest it.

I have done this quite a few times on Earthshaker and other Sys 11s.

If you are still puzzled I'll try and draw a little diagram when I get home tonight :)
 
Sgt GrizZ said:
You disengage the posts from the hooks yes,and then rest the playfield on top of the hooks so the pivot posts are on the front side of the hooks..... If you follow...,you can then pivot the the playfield down and the underside will slide along on top of the hooks. A good few inches as much wiring loom will allow. This won't damage the underside if the playfield. And yes pad out the front area where you rest it.

I had done this quite a few times.

If you are still puzzled I'll try and draw a little diagram when I get home tonight :)
Click to expand...
Nah, I got it, cheers - just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything or am seeing an unexpected mechanism instead of something 'standard'. There's a part of me that would still want to pad out the playfield at the back too while it sits on those hooks (no, I don't trust that car-bonnet little arm either to not wreck the playfield...) but I see how it will work.
 
PBrookfield said:
Nah, I got it, cheers - just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything or am seeing an unexpected mechanism instead of something 'standard'. There's a part of me that would still want to pad out the playfield at the back too while it sits on those hooks (no, I don't trust that car-bonnet little arm either to not wreck the playfield...) but I see how it will work.
Click to expand...
The playfield support arm is for temp propping for a short time. I try not to use them, won't damage underside of playfield but does cause it to flex which I don't like. The worst are the wide body machines with them like TZ!
 
Sgt GrizZ said:
The playfield support arm is for temp propping for a short time. I try not to use them, won't damage underside of playfield but does cause it to flex which I don't like. The worst are the wide body machines with them like TZ!
Click to expand...
I tried it once and while a nice idea it's incredibly sketchy on just F-14 which is quite light on the playfield toys. I couldn't imagine even having one installed on a widebody... why isn't there a prop on the other side at least!!!
 
If you really want the best access, why not just remove the whole playfield, do what you need to do at the back and then put it back in.

They're heavy but not 2 man lift heavy imo. Check this video out between 3 and 4 minutes:
Matt was able to lift a WMS Indy playfield out on his own and that's way heavier than F14.

By the time you've mucked about trying to get a little access you could have the whole thing out. Your back will thank you too, nothing worse than trying to work bent awkwardly into the bottom of a cabinet!
 
With the playfield forward as I described you can reach the back with no awkward bending. And no removing all the connectors from the head. I believe PB just needs access to the flashers.

I guess though if you have a lot of work to do around the back, top and underside then yeah just take it out :)

All good fun
 
kevlar said:
Matt is a big burly builder tho.....
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Was just about to say - I'm all leg. Legs are steel-meat alloy but my arms are pepperami. I'll hurt myself or the playfield lifting it out, carting it outside of the small bedroom the pin is in, down the hall to somewhere in the living room I could briefly rest it.

Plus I prefer working alone, and my brother only just got over hurting his back helping me carry the damn machine into the flat in the first place; I'm not cruel enough to ask him for more.
 
PBrookfield said:
Part of the problem is that at least two of those flashbulbs in the back are either blown or the circuitry needs resoldering. From seeing prior shop logs the printed flexible circuit is very prone to having traces shear off as they are unguarded from physical stress, so that's why I was looking for complete access with a soldering iron, if not for repair but also preventative maintenance.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if Williams got around to making up a pcb for the rear flashbulbs*, mine (which was an early one) had six separate sockets, with the flashbulb supply daisy-chained between them and the individual return wires. Have you made sure that the ones which don't light haven't got their other bulb gone, e.g. #1 (from the left) is paired with the bulb above 'Line of Death', mid left side. Or that there aren't broken resistors on any of the limiting/bypass boards?


* the refinement of a flexible pcb doesn't sound like Williams. A later game, Whirlwind, had a pcb for bulbs on its infill, but it was a rigid board. Not that that stopped someone on the assembly line damaging a trace on one by bending it the wrong way to snap it off a stack of them.
 
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Jay Walker said:
I'm not sure if Williams got around to making up a pcb for the rear flashbulbs, mine (which was an early one) had six separate sockets, with the flashbulb supply daisy-chained between them and the individual return wires. Have you made sure that the ones which don't light haven't got their other bulb gone, e.g. #1 (from the left) is paired with the bulb above 'Line of Death', mid left side. Or that there aren't broken resistors on any of the limiting/bypass boards?
Click to expand...
Some are sockets, some have a board, yes. The machine is of undeterminable age (it's one of those machines with a mix of late, early and proto design parts) but suspect it has sockets because the playfield is all sockets.
That's really interesting to know about how they're paired up, because my Line of Death flashbulb isn't working, but after doing my playfield strip I determined it to be A-OK and was thinking I was going to have to run the wires to find a break. But #1 on the back is definitely not working, so that would explain it.
All the boards on the playfield and in the backbox need serviced and I will do this, but they are all working OK.
 
Mine was (and hopefully still is) # I 97013, and had only one wedge-base bulb in it, for the Jet bumper.

In case you don't have the manual, the rear flashbulbs' pairings are
  1. 'Line of Death'
  2. L/h flipper return frame
  3. R/h flipper return frame
  4. Lowest of triple group, above lowest lock/eject pocket
  5. Centre of this group
  6. Upper of this group
 
Further 'different' points about it were;
  • Later type brackets for the upper flippers, with detachable EoS switch 'spurs'
  • Test switch added to the early-production audio pcb
  • Green '5v present' l.e.d. on the cpu/driver board
  • Two small 2-way DiL switches in place of jumper wires on cpu/driver
  • Missing a bit of ply off front of cabinet, just above left leg
  • Yankee power outlet added to mains filter box
  • Later type 2x 'Quarter' slot front door, from a Bride of Pin-Bot
 
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Jay Walker said:
Further 'different' points about it were;
  • Later type brackets for the upper flippers (detachable EoS switch 'spurs')
  • Test switch added to the early-production audio pcb
  • Green 5v l.e.d. on the cpu/driver board
  • Two small 2-way DiL switches on cpu/driver
  • Missing a bit of ply off front of cabinet, just above left leg
  • Yankee power outlet added to mains filter box
  • Later type front door, from a Bride of Pin-Bot
Click to expand...
I definitely don't have your machine based on these points, but 97013 is searing a hole in my head for some reason. Unfortunately it might be ominous news as I know that the serial numbers for the CPU board and the cabin do not match.
 
There may be a 'fix' for that. Don't tell anyone, but sometimes there was a 'spare' serial number label to be found on the unseen lower edge of the white tilt panel.
 
Jay Walker said:
There may be a 'fix' for that. Don't tell anyone, but sometimes there was a 'spare' serial number label to be found on the unseen lower edge of the white tilt panel.
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Blimey, you're absolutely right! I'll have to remember that if/when I ever look for other Sys11 games...

I won't be making use of it myself because I don't plan on ever selling this thing, and I'm more the sort of person that likes things that wear their age well rather than looking like they fell out of a time capsule - this thing has evidence on the backbox door that something caught fire on the CPU board and it makes sense that the board is a seven-digit later part than the original.

Oh and it was just a glitch in the matrix - nothing on this machine is I 97013 - that's a good thing because it would have meant that 97013 got parted out...
 
PBrookfield said:
Blimey, you're absolutely right! I'll have to remember that if/when I ever look for other Sys11 games...

I won't be making use of it myself because I don't plan on ever selling this thing, and I'm more the sort of person that likes things that wear their age well rather than looking like they fell out of a time capsule - this thing has evidence on the backbox door that something caught fire on the CPU board and it makes sense that the board is a seven-digit later part than the original.

Oh and it was just a glitch in the matrix - nothing on this machine is I 97013 - that's a good thing because it would have meant that 97013 got parted out...
Click to expand...

Yes, I wouldn't have liked hearing that, after owning it from the early 90's until two or three years ago. I realised after signing off though that it wasn't likely, since I'd added those overlooked fuses for the transformer secondaries, and you'd mentioned that yours had this still to do.
 
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