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Demo Man CRYOCLAW Problem

A

arakissun

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Feb 21, 2013
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484
I knew that this thing will make me problems sooner or later.I have this machine from 2 years and never had problems before with it.
From today Cryoclaw not functional right.

1.Test menu.When I run Auto Run test it work only the elevator,the claw not move auto.I think it must move first the claw after that the elevator like when machine is turn on.If I test it manually left and right is ok and the optos are fine.The elevator park right.

2.Gameplay.When the claw catch the ball and drop it(with the triggers) the claw not auto back to it's default position.I can sen when it must begin to move just shake for a second and this is,like it try but something block it.It do it every game.It work sometimes but it's random.
Sometimes the claw didn't catch the ball.

First I will change the optos,after that I don't have any ideas.
 
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Changing the Optos usually sorts that. The Optos are flaky but don't cause a problem in test mode when there is less strain on the power.
 
So looks like my problem rise again and this time is permanent.

1.First,how it must work AUTO TEST?I don't think that mine is working correctly.You can see it from this video:

2.There have some loud hum when the claw catch the ball,but I cannot be sure if this is from the magnet or some of the motors/gearbox.
Or this is normal too.
Again watch the video:


3.And the main problem after 3-4 minutes of gameplay always after this period of time the claw just stop to work normal.When I tried to test it I needed to push like arcade (rapidly) the test buttons to move the claw.It just take like just a short impulse.
But after leave it from the test menu and go in attract mode the claw that do the auto move left/right and elevator up/down works without problem.But when you begin to play or enter test menu don't work.
Here is the video:

4.After leave the machine turned off(not in attract mode) for about 5min it run fine for about 3-4min,after that the problem come
Looks like the problematic element is not overloaded and the machine work fine at first.
Video:


After all these test I begin to think that the problem is from the control of the claw.Don't have other Motor control board to test with it.
I doubt to be problem from the motors or gearbox(I have spare of these so I can test of course) because they move very nice and left/right optos on the claw are new.Didn't change these on the elevator.
I think that some element of the whole trace that control the movement of the claw got fail after 3-4 min of working time.



Tried these things:
-Asked a friend who is very good with the motors and he tell me that definitely the problem is from the control of the claw.
-Other EMI board
-Other 7-switch opto board
-Touched carefully the elements on the Motor controller board and the transistors on Power Driver Board to see if there some who may be hot,but everything is normal cold.
-Changed LM7805,C100mF/35V,both 2N45(to be honest I don't have idea of the function of these 2N45 if someone can tell me)
-Already ordered 74LS32 and L6203(for the Motor controller board)

Read somewhere that L6203 must be the problem similar for mine,but I will be thankful if someone can try to help me with other idea.
And if can write me the whole trace that control the claw.
 
At the morning I just test it one more time and now the problem looks like this(no matter right or left you can see how Left Opto just flash when I try to move the claw)Can it be from the both 4N25 that I changed previously.

 
I have some time today to test some other things until driver IC arrive.
I saw when the problem come transistor Q34 is shorted at the one of the sides.After a while 2,3,4 minutes it began to show positive values but stop at .380 at this side.
For good working transistor and compared with the others on the power board it must be at least .600.
After much longer time 5-6 minutes the transistor at normal values.
So I changed Q32,Q34,Q35,Q36-these are the ones for left and right move.
Played 4 games without problem and at the end of the last one the problem show again.
And again the values of the transistor-first shot and after that positive but not good.

So I think several things:
1.Power Driver board-don't have idea what to check.
2.Motor of the claw may be failed and it get more power to move and this to push the transistor until it short.
3.Again Motor controller board is failed and push the transistor or the claw motor.

Is the motor from the Elevator is the same with Claw?I have one spare and now that it work but it's from the Elevator.

I really need to know how Auto test work,please shot me some video or explain how it must work,I need to begin from somewhere.





EDIT:After some search in the manual Auto Test was tested and work correctly.
 
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It's not Motor controller board-all elements were replaced with new one same problem.
And now I just go to the claw,didn't want it but looks like it will be the hard way.
Interesting or just accidentally I tried first to change the magnet.
And after that for at least 15 tries the claw was working.
May be I was too skeptical that this may be the problem,because I didn't see any connection.
And of course it show up again.
Now I begin to think that is the gearbox,because when I removed and disassembled the mechanism it was easy to felt when I rotate the claw(of course without the motor on it) that at some positions it just stuck and it's hard to go on.
I have one spare gearbox and compared them and the spare one is move very nice.
Also noticed that the motor's gearwheel or whatever it call(the part that must put inside the gearbox) have some damages at the edges and the are not sharpened but rounded.
So I now put the spare gearbox and the spare motor that looks much better than the original (both motors for the elevator and claw are same).
And stopped work for today because I'm too tired and put some connectors into the wrong place and begin to blow the fuses and felt that I must rest for a while.

I think there were not so much options left after this operation.
And if this don't work I think I must left cryoclaw disable.
 
Tested with the new gearbox and motor-same problem.
So the problem left to be software(which I doubt because before 6 month it worked fine) or something from the boards on the backbox.
And may be some connection with the elevator,will try to clean it optos,but they work fine so I doubt for this too.
The more interest is the problem first begin when the claw try to auto move firs to the left position,no matter if it first catch the ball from the elevator or when the ball is dropped in some of the modes.
Will stay it disabled for now.
 
May be some last chance for him.
I saw that the screws on Fliptronic board were not screwed well,strange may be I test it for something before and left it like this.
So I screwed them well as all other for the boards.
Now I can feel and really feel that my flippers are stronger than before,the claw worked very well for an 1 or 1:30h after that the problem rise again.
One thing that worry me,please at least someone to test or answer me.I know there are enough DM owner.
So there it is:

Before the claw catch the ball it move nice and quiet,but when it catch the ball I can hear that when the claw move did it little slower than when it's without the ball and much louder,like it's hard to move.And when it's on position with the ball no matter on which mode(not move) I can here some strange snore from the mechanism and can fell little vibration.
When I test it in TEST MENU it move nice even with the ball.
I doubt this must be normal so please again confirm how work your machine.I know that the magnet must have some noise because it work when catch the ball,but this cannot be from it,it's too small to make noise like this.
 
May be last update for now,because this thing took me too many time and didn't fix it.
Measured the voltages of the motor with and without the ball and at gameplay and in test mode.

During gameplay and only when the magnet catch the ball it drop to 10.7v and the claw move little slower of course and can hear the snoring from the mechanism.
During gameplay without the ball(until it go from left to right to catch it) stable 12.5-13v,after that when it catch drop to 10.7v.
During power on he machine and when move left to right automatically (not gameplay) stable 12.5-13v.

During test mode and Auto Test no matter with or without ball and active magnet too stable 12.5-13v



Changed the Fliptronic board,because the magnet is controlled from this board but same result.


So the problem exist only when it's at gameplay and only when the magnet activate and catch the ball something influence of the power or control of the of the motor because sometimes made one impulse when try to auto return to left and stay at place.
 
Can this be a miracle?
Played it a lot last night-took about 15-20 claw catches,several super jackpots,all modes completed around 4 Billion points.
And the claw work.
Again I can hear a little hum when it catch but this can be normal.
So the last thing that I did:
Reconfigurated the transfomer from 240v to 220v.
This step remove total the snoring from the claw.
Also I can hear that the motor when it move it do it without scratch sound like before.
And even that all coils including the flippers got stronger.I can made the ramps now more easy than before.

So the things that I think work for now are:
Good secured board on the metal plate.
Transformer configuration from 240-220v.

If these two works,I'm feel very stupid-first the flipper board was unscrewed by me at some time before and the configuration of the transformer,because this is the first thing that I do when get a machine,don't know why I didn't do it.
 
Once mine was fixed I disabled the claw. Hopefully that means it will still be working if and when I sell it (although I guess that logic might be false?) but more importantly the game has better flow that way
 
Just out of curiosity have you checked the voltage at the socket , just that some areas have a little less and some have the full 240 volts :hmm:
 
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