In Progress Dealer's Choice, Williams, EM

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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Haven't you tried a sneaky switching it on yet:D
No not yet. The 'old' me would have done that by now, but the 'new, patient' me is happy to fix up the electrical thing that I can see need doing first, before the switch on. There isn't really much, so once I get it in the house I'll soon have those jobs sorted. Slight delay on moving it into the house, the freezing weather and snow have caused me to have a leak in the sun room where this is going. Looks like the gutter has frozen solid and water is now flowing over the back of the gutter and finding its way in.... Grrrr.

Been trying to find some "Jones" sockets - non in UK, some in USA. Seems like everyone calls them "Jones" plugs in the pinball world, but they aren't really Jones plugs at all............The things you learn.......

I've ordered some cleaning products. Should be here next week.
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Today I did a bit of work, decided to move the machine into the house in stages, first stage the head.
On removing the head I discovered a woodworking problem - the 'neck' is knackered, the plywood has separated and warped, but should be an easy fix with a new piece of wood:
IMG_9237.JPG

IMG_9238.JPG

Head off, I decided to take the gubbins out so I can work on the broken Jones sockets right at the bottom:
IMG_9239.JPG IMG_9240.JPG

A bit of a mess:
IMG_9241.JPG IMG_9248.JPG IMG_9242.JPG IMG_9243.JPG IMG_9245.JPG IMG_9246.JPG IMG_9247.JPG

This one has broken off the solder point lug - I'll have a go at soldering it back on
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These sockets have been broken by someone being too forceful, so that made me think about the plugs, and sure enough, these are broken too:

IMG_9250.JPG
IMG_9251.JPG IMG_9252.JPG

This one has a missing prong. So I may have to circumvent that unless I can replace it. Maybe a bit of thin copper tube.
IMG_9253.JPG

On the positive side today, I fixed a new coil to the score reel that had it's coil missing and tested, it works fine. I've tested by using a variable voltage bench power supply.

Probably the worst thing you want to find in the bottom of the cab on an EM machine:
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That broken contact leaf could have come from anywhere, I'm gonna have to have a look at every switch now!

The brass pin above could be just what I need to fix the broken Jones plug though.

There were some part schematics that came with the machine, these are the same ones I got of IPDB, but they were printed in 2010 as that's the date it says on them at the bottom, so looks like someone had a go 7-8 years ago and didn't manage to get it up and running.
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Also gave this glass a good old clean, as you can see it was filthy.
Not sure if this is original, it feels rough around the edges.

IMG_9231.JPG
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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A 9 hour shift working solidly on this today:

IMG_9262.JPG
First job was to test out all of the relays in the back box and so I dug out a bench power supply. 24V to test the relays. I'm pleased to say ALL of them worked. I also tested the stepper units in the back box and found them to be sticking, so looks like each will need some stripping and refurbing.

A quick look at the steppers revealed knackered springs, so I replaced some with a similar tension (not quite right) and re-tested, one works file, the other is still sticking a bit. The third one is missing one of it's relays - spare should arrive tomorrow, So I'll look at that unit then. I also noticed score reel for the credit score seemed to be on backwards, so I reversed that, will full check that out later.
I've made a list of all the jobs to do and included things to retest at a later stage.
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IMG_9264.JPG IMG_9265.JPG

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I'm no woodworker, but managed to cut a piece to replace the broken side of the neck.

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Gave the Jones plugs a bit of a clean to get the decent contact.

The rest of the day - and the most time spent trying to clean the playfield. It is proving a tough task, the dirt is really ingrained into the paint and it's taken a lot of time and effort to get this far today:
IMG_9279.JPG
A lot more cleaning to do, then looks like I'm gonna have to teach myself how to touch up paintwork!!!!!!!!
 

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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Still on with cleaning the playfield - it's a hard job, can't go too hard as it's bringing the paint off. Then the postman arrived with a couple of parcels:

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Many thanks to @Jay Walker for these 'jones' plugs and a 20 way socket. Really appreciated.

IMG_9288.JPG
Took the old broken one out

IMG_9289.JPG
Soldered in the new one.

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resoldered the black wire on (far right), the red on to the left was more tricky as the log had broken off - I managed to sand the edge of the socket housing and get a good electrical contact point to solder it together.

Now, what to do about the largest, Jones socket - it's a 24 -way and I cannot find one anywhere. So, I had a good look at it and fiddled with the broken pieces and decided to try gluing it back together, it was a bit tricky trying to hold all the pieces in place, so I did one at a time and then hold it with a peg, and will keep the pegs on until the glue has fully hardened.
IMG_9297.JPG
Decided on an acrylic glue.

I'd been worrying about how to fix the missing pin off the jones plug from the cabinet to the backbox. I was about to try and make a new pin, when I followed a hunch and had a good look in the bottom of the cabinet. After 20 minutes, I found this:
IMG_9298.JPG
Yes- the missing pin!

I then cut a nail with a flat head to the right size:
IMG_9299.JPG IMG_9300.JPG
Perfect fit

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Before

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After! Mission accomplished! It was hard to get the two bits to solder together and then to solder on the black wire, a bit fiddly, but managed it eventually.

Second delivery was from @pinballmania and included a whole load of stuff for this project, including some used score reels and a used credit score reel. I need one of the coils off that, and maybe some other bits too.
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New coil fitted from the donor score reel and I replaced another dead spring. The unit seems to function, so I'll not refurb any further unless I need to later on.

I've also had a real good look inside the cabinet and also under the playfield. All 4 flippers will need a rebuild I imagine, and one of the slingshots is sticky, so needs looking at. There is a bank of stand up targets and several of these are very loose, looks like the rivets holding the target and it's switch onto the metal fixing plate have failed on each of these. Looks like need replacing or somehow repairing. On further inspection I can see two others that have also failed but have been secured back together with a cable tie. If it works, that might be my fix!

Once the glue has dried on the Jones sockets, I'm going to refix them down, replace the backbox workings into the backbox and then re-attach the backbox onto the cabinet. I can then try to reconnect the broken jones plugs into the new and mended jones sockets. I'll test each one once done to make sure we have a solid electrical connection.
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Just got the quote from shazzam at bgresto in USA - $380 (incl shipping to UK) for a new backglass - ouch! Probably get hit for some customs charges too on that, so about £330. I'm not sure this machine deserves a new backglass, as the playfield and the cabinet are both poor. I'll bear it in mind.

To take my mind off it - I'm gonna crack on tonight, put the machine back together, wire it together, check those jones connections, check the fuses, once again check all the switches and relays, AND THEN............DA DA DAAAAAAAAAHHHHH:
do a switch on............

(If this is the last post I make to this thread, you can assume it went horribly wrong)!
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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It has been a l-o-n-g night with this machine. Managed to get it all into the sun room and the cab reunited with the head:
IMG_9310.JPG

Here is a pic of one of the 'repaired' stand up targets. it works! Pity the previous owner only did two and not the others that are falling apart. Oh well, easy fix, until I can find permanent replacements.
IMG_9312.JPG

Then to connect up and test the Jones plugs and sockets. The glue didn't hold the broken socket and par came loose, so I spent ages teasing the plugs into the sockets, only to find later that electrically they were not making contact. So, took it all apart, cleaned the plugs more, cleaned the sockets, reassemble carefully retest - a few more working than before, repeat, repeat, eventually 4th time I got them fitting well together and all 58 contacts are making a good solid electrical connection,
IMG_9314.JPG

I then spent another hour or so, double checking as much of the wiring, switches, contacts, steppers, relays, rollover and button switches etc. In preparation for the switch on. All 4 fuses on the fuseboard ok, the 2 underside of playfield ok.

Switch on #1 - Nothing! Flick the switch underneath Still nothing...Zilch. Unplug and check the 13A plug fuse. it's OK. Im just screwing the plug back together when I realise I'm holding the plug to my soldering iron. Looks like I plugged that in instead of the machine! Doh!!!!

Switch on #2 - Nothing again. Flick the power switch underneath the cab and yey! - We have a noise. Not much of a noise. Just a motor running, the socre motor to be precise. it is turning but the score cams it is supposed to be turning aren't. A closer look reveals that there is something amis between the motor drive shaft and the cam shaft. There is a split pin trying to work as a notch to engage the slot in the cam shaft, but it's missing by a fraction of an inch. Clealr this is a bodge that probably worked for a while. I switch off and try moving the split pin into the can shaft slot.

Switch on #3 - same as 2 - the motor turns but not the cams. I manually turn the cams and we get some life, a few score relays click and chatter and after a revolution or so, everything goes quiet and the motor stops. Looks like the game thinks it's reset itself. I check the score reels and notice some have zeroised, others not. Looks like some switches on the score reels and maybe the score motor cams will need adjusting. I also note a few of the lights have come on, so that's a bit of a result. Switch off

Take apart the score motor assembly, remove the motor unit. it has a round hole through the drive shaft.
IMG_9316.JPG
This clearly should have something through it to meet up with the cam drive shaft, which has a slot in it:
IMG_9315.JPG
You can just see it to the right of the far right bank of leaf switches.

Looks like I'm on the hunt for a very thin bolt or something tomorrow!

All in all a good day, shame it ended with a problem like this..
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Today has been another set of challenges. I woke up from a dream about how to fix various things on the machine. Anyhow, the first challenge is how to get the hole in the score motor to line up with the slot in score reel cam shaft end?

Here is a pic of it when it is snugly fitted into the unit, motor is in the correct position, and I've even packed out the cam shaft from the other end with a washer. However I cannot go too far otherwise the cam wheels wont line up with their respective switch banks.
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A bit closer:
IMG_9322.PNG
I just cannot figure out why there is a mismatch, I have checked the frame to ensure it is not bent or out of alignment, I've taken the motor assembly off and checked that - it's a non serviceable unit as is rivitted together, but looks ok, a small amount of play in the drive shaft, but not enough to solve this issue. I've taken the whole score cam shaft out and examined it and it cannot be adjusted. It is almost like the incorrect motor unit has been fitted.........Hmm, maybe that's it.

So, lets try find the right one. I cannot locate an exact match, but something similar in USA, but it's $110, add on shipping and import tax, gonna bee well over £100 for something that may or may not work.

I have a chat to my Cousin who lives in Israel - we chat a lot, he's a motorbike engineer etc. has his own lathe, can do all this metalwork stuff easily. After a few ideas, we decide on the 'bent nail' trick.
This is the result:
IMG_9329.JPG IMG_9330.JPG
Not very pretty but it might just work, I have to tease it into place through this opening:
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it fits and I mange to then gently hammer it down into the cam end slot:
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This is no elegant fix, and I'm not happy with it as a permanent solution, but for now.........Yep it works! The cam reels turn now when the power is applied to the motor.....

A get the clicks and whirs that I got last night but it doesn't sound too healthy. No point in messing around, I need to get back to checking for other errors. I can see that some of the switches on the cam score reels are bent and probably not making contact.

I am also aware of those 3 cut wires in the bottom of the cabinet, so decide to figure those out. One is blue and orange and the other two are very thing and both black. They are not far from the total play meter which has had it's wires ripped out by the looks of it - as no wires visible. I check the schematic and sure enough these are supposed to go to that unit. it's not needed so that's ok, but what's not ok is the two back wires are now not connected, they should be. So I fix that, temporarily as a test:
IMG_9338.JPG

Another power on and a bit more noise, so that black wire being reconnected has had what I feel is a positive improvement. but the sounds and action do not sound like a machine resetting, the score motor does a half turn and that's it. I would expect several turns at least to get everything reset.

I decide I need to check the switch and relay and score motor contacts and also test all the relay coils out in the cabinet. I decide to test the relays first as there are less of them and easy to do. Theey all test out apart from one:
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This is the 'Reset' Relay, and it looks quite burnt. As I look closer I can see one of the winding wires is broken:
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The right hand side one is broken. Its hard to get to and takes me ages to get this item off. One off, I unpick the windings and find the missing broken end. I managee to resolder this back onto the lug, but it's testing out at around 0 ohms, meaning the coil winding is shorted and burnt out.

That worries me as the reset relay should only be engaged for a short time whilst the system resets, I think at start or end of a game or when cash is deposited, etc. So, this relay should not be on for long. This one has burnt out so suggests it's been on for longer than it should.

Anyhow, I try to find a spare - no one has them, so I go for the next best option and pinch a similar sized relay off this machine - I've taken one that has something to do with the one coin or two coins per play 5c setting. I dont think it will be used, but if it is I'll have to sort that out later on. The one that is dead is a Williams M-29-900, then 'spare' I have created is a M29-1100. Same size, bigger winding, so designed to be on for longer. Should work. I manage to fit it easily enough.
IMG_9340.JPG
I power on and something strage is happening. the start game button no longer works. However if I trigger a coin mechanism, thn the machine spurts into life, the repaired reset relay triggers on and the score motor turns round and round, and, well it never stops......... until I pull the plug.

I can't understand why the credit play button no longer works and I spend ages trying to figure this out. Is it because I've stolen a relay coil of another part of the machine, is it because I've fixed the reset relay? In the end I try to retrace my steps and realise that in replacing the reset relay I did move that relay unit about a lot and sure enough, I find a broken off wire to one of the relay switches.
I plug in my trusty 40-odd year old Antex soldering iron ready to re-attach it - after 10 mins no heat, check the plug, the fuse, the wire. Oh **** it's gone - the element has finally failed after all these years. I was 16 when I got that - Shall I bury it in the garden, with a little RIP sign? Oh well, now I can get a soldering station! In the meantime, don't want to use a pesky 12w or my giant 100w irons, so croc clips again as a temp test fix.

Another power on and I'm pleased to see that the start game button works, but as expected the score reel turns and turns. I manually disengage the repaired reset replay and all goes quiet. I try a flipper - it flips - or at least tries to..... Yey! loks like I'm in a game. I press a couple of switches, and sure enough we get some scores going up. The ball drain works and onto the next ball I assume.

All 4 flippers trigger but only 1 returns the others are well in need of refurb or replacement.

I test the 3 pop jets - nothing. These are on DC, so is it the bridge rectifier? I test the 2 slingshots, they both work and they are also on DC, so bridge is ok. I fiddle with the trigger switches on the pop jets and eventually one fires - made me bloody jump too. Looking at the switches, they are really dirty - I'll probably be able to sort these out with a gentle contact clean. A job for later.

I also test the ball eject, that doesn't seem to be working, so maybe a dud coil, or maybe a switch or relay not triggering properly - another job for later.

My main job now is to figure out why the reset relay is staying on. I look at the circuit diagram. There are 4 circuits that cause this relay to fire.

the first one is when the game over relay AND the coin relay (whatever that is) both trigger. I don't think this is what's causing it to stay one - but maybe I'll have to come back to this if I can't find any other cause.

The other three are all in series with a switch on the reset relay itself, so what that means is that once the relay switches on, it will keep itself powered on until all three of these other circults have become open by some other means. This is what I can see happening, so it's likely to be one of these, the connections are:
1. to switch on the core motor cam shaft - on the 'index' cam - this is the one that triggers every 1/2 revolution, so should probably go open circuit at the end of eveery 1/2 cycle. That makes sense.
2. to the 16 (yes 16) different player score reel switches that go open when the score is at the Zero position. ( 4 players X 4 score reels each = 16). Again this makes sense - the reset cycle is going to continue until all 16 score reels have turned around to zero - Blimey This is gonna be a a big test!
3. to a switch on the 'bonus' relay - whatever that is?

Ok I have a lot of switch circuits to test now. That should keep be out of mischief for a while. It is key for me to resolve this issue, otherwise I will never get a game to start properly.
 

ronsplooter

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I would expect several turns at least to get everything reset.
The score motor should keep turning until the game is reset including zeroing all of the score reels. I think you said some of your reels don't turn so as long as they're not all set to zero anyway then your motor should just keep going. If they are then manually open one of the zero position switches (assuming they're normally closed) while you work on the motor and it should help you know when you've fixed it as it'll just keep turning :thumbs:

Edit: Have you got a schematic for this game? It'll help figure out what state the game needs to be in to start a game (and therefore has reset correctly) which should give you a list of things to work through.
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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yes i have the schematic. just working on trying to get the score motor to stop. it is resetting all score reels to zero. i’ve tested all the zero switches all work as they should. it now looks like it’s the bonus relay that is staying on. keeping the motor running. that’s then leading me to the bonus stepper disk to unit. tomorrow’s job to clean and check that


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James

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This is such a good thread - so much to do, but methodical and interesting, thanks for keeping us so well informed :)
 
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This morning I've had a chance to try figure out why the reset is not ending. So far I've worked out that the Reset relay stays on because the bonus relay is staying on – I suspect that it’s staying on because the bonus unit disc stepper is not resetting properly – so look at that first. But there are 3 circuits that keep the bonus relay on:

1. The bonus relay latches on until the bonus stepper unit zero position switch reaches the zero (Open) position

2. When a ball goes out of play, triggering outhole switch and the outhole relay has not yet triggered. (The outhole relay is supposed to bee triggered soon after the ball goes out of play.

3. The bonus relay stays on when the Reset relay is on AND the n/c swith on the score motor – index cam is closed. This will be open for the majority of the score motor revolution, only closing when the cam reaches it’s reset position. i.e. the score motor can trigger the bonus relay to be on but immediately switches it off, until it reaches it’s next revolution cycle. It will only keep it on a second time if the reset relay is still on.


First I’ve looked at #1 – but I can see that the bonus stepper unit is stepping down ok to zero, and seems to be opening the switch. I’ll test the switch (2 n/c switches on here – not sure which one to test, so may as well test them both. – Tested – both open correctly at the zero position, also the stepper unit is correctly stepping down to the zero position, so it’s not this. This stepper disk unit probably needs cleaning but for the time being I’ll leave it as it is.
Here are pics of it:
IMG_9341.JPG IMG_9342.JPG

The Bonus relay looks ok:
IMG_9343.JPG
It's switches all seem to be making and breaking properly

I rule out #2 fairly quickly – as I can see the outhole relay trigger correctly when I trigger the outhole switch, and the switches on the outhole relay look to be working fine.

That leaves #3 - I wonder if the switch on the Score motor index cam is working properly, So let’s test that. I find that this is problem – it is staying closed all the time, needs adjusting, I proved it by manually lifting the switch and the bonus replay dropped out. I don’t have a leaf switch adjustment tool – I need to get one. So it’s a careful clean with a business card and then very careful adjustment with two small screwdrivers, working at the end closest to the fixed end of the leafs. Eventually I do it, test it will my meter and then switch on – it now works perfectly. I feel this is a major milestone as I have a reset cycle working properly. It now switches on, score motor circulates, counts down the bonus unit and then the bonus relay switches off and then in turn so does the reset relay.
The switch in question is on the stack at the top of this photo:
IMG_9347.JPG
Those switches are dirty on the top, but look to be working ok underneath.

Now I have a reset cycle working I decide to start a game and I press start 4 times, each time the score motor cycles then stops. I simulate a 4 player game and it seems to basically work, it moves from player 1 to 2, and then in turn 3 & 4 scoring on progressive balls. But once reaches player 4 stays there – the player count stepper disc unit not resetting. I know coil is good, so either jammed, or a switch not triggering the coil. There is also a problem with the ball count stepper disc unit, so maybe these two are linked?? I.e. maybe the ball count should step to rest the player from 4 to 1??? – check schematic.
Here are the ball count stepper units (left) and the "Coin SU unit" (right) - Still not sure what that does - does it control the number of active players somehow?
IMG_9344.JPG
IMG_9346.JPG
I can see the ball counter stepper unit isn't clocking on properly. Do I clean/re-spring the unit now, or look for another problem?

I dig out the schematic and start to look through, but before I start tracing these circults, I remember that I’ve noticed the top n/o switch on the score motor index cam isn’t closing ever – looking at schematic, this is the “player reset relay lock”, so this may explain why this problem exists, so first I’ll try adjusting this, it's clearly got to do with player reset, so maybe that needs to be closing to trigger things like ball counter and player number reset??

That's it for today, gotta pay my Mum a visit!
 
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astyy

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Are the switch contacts themselves that dirty on the Bonus Relay stack - they look black? If so they may be not be making a good enough electrical contact - when I inspect a relay I typically buzz the switch contacts with the dremel 443 & swab with IPA - electrix likes nice and shiny:)
 
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AlanJ

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Are the switch contacts themselves that dirty on the Bonus Relay stack - they look black? If so they may be not be making a good enough electrical contact - when I inspect a relay I typically buzz the switch contacts with the dremel 443 & swab with IPA - electrix likes nice and shiny:)
thanks for tip. most look quite clean and i’ve tested with meter and are close to zero ohms. it looks like the problem ones are ones someone has bent and mangled.


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astyy

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Are these clean? My project became far more reliable as I cleaned each stack so the contacts are shiny, long term these are supposed to wipe and self clean but I'm not sure they can recover from this level of crustation.

upload_2018-3-9_11-15-12.png
 

astyy

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After a couple of uses the 443 brush collapses into to a carbon cotton bud shape. As such you can then softly brush the switch contacts in situ, dremel at lowest revs, less than 1 minute per relay stack, swabbing them with IPA in between brushing. I use the cotton bud to gently prise the switch open for the dremel then swab it out again as it's removed. Hopefully this method is so quick you can clean a relay as you inspect it:thumbs:

20170707_170223.jpg
 
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AlanJ

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Thanks for these tips @astyy - I've been taking the opposite apprach which is to not mess with anything unless I find out it needs attention. Even though the contacts look dirty, they are conducting very well. My fear is that cleaning them may make then worse, I run the risk of moving something etc.
 

astyy

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Totally understood. There is logic in that approach and certainly you don't want to be doing unwarranted adjusting, that is EM error #1.

When you are testing these switches with your DMM are you testing them open as well to ensure you're not reading around rather than across the contacts? A popular alternative is to t/shoot using jumper wires.
 
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AlanJ

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SO back to it this afternoon, I have got that switch working properly on the top of the score motor cam index stack, and hey presto! things have improved, the ball counter disk now resets and clocks along each successive ball. I've put it on a 3 ball game to make testing quicker than a 5 ball game.

It now plays a 4 player game stepping through player 1,2,3,4 then back to 1,2,3,4 etc. It plays 3 balls each then end of game kicks in correctly.

Next problem is that it seems to be starting on a multi player game even if press start (replay) button only once. After fiddling around I see another wire off a coil on the Coin SU unit and temp croc clip that back on. I also mess around with the coin SU disk unit – I’m sure this determines how many players are playing in a game. After a lot of messing around I confirm this IS indeed how the machine knows how many players there are in the current game, and I can now start a game, single player.

If I press credit button a second or third time, it uses up a credit, but doesn’t clock round the Coin SU unit. (It does for the first player – sso ,,,,what’s different about the first player? Well pressing first player clocks this unit one notch around, this opens up the zero end switch on the unit and of course the units spider legs are now making different contacts. I look at the Schematic – can see that there are a number of things wired in parallel that allow a game to be clocked up, I check all of these – mainly different contacts on different relays – all look ok and test out ok with the meter, but problem persists. Then after a lot more trials and tests I notice it’s not ever working on player 1 now?????

A big scratch of the head and back to basics.........lots of thinking and head scratching........Then I find it - Looks like my temp croc clip fix was hanging on by a very short margin, reconnected it more securely to the lug of the coin SU unit coil and it all suddenly works, AND EVEN BETTER! it now works for players 1,2,3,4. The loose croc clip probably lost contact when the stepper fired off from the player one trigger. Teaches me that croc clips should be replaced by a perm fix asap!

More testing of this reveals another problem, it carries on past player 4 - I can press the credit button for 5,6,7, etc times, each one using up a credit! The coin SU disk relay is firing ok to step the Coin SU unit stepper around, but it’s not stepping around correctly. Looks like the whole unit needs clean, refurb and adjusting. As a test I manually move it around and successfully play out a single player, 2 player, 3 player and a 4 player games.

I feel like I am nearly there, there is this problem and then there is the problem of the ball eject coil not firing to shoot out a ball. I have also discovered that there is an intermittent problem sometimes with the score motor cam system - it seems to be stopping in the wrong place sometimes. e.g, sometimes a function will not start the score motor as it should - e.g. pressing the replay button sometimes doesn't work. Also sometimes during a game, the outhole switch doesn't trigger the end of ball. Both these issues are the same problem, the score reel isn't at it's proper reset position, both are solved by shoving the score reel and letting it complete another 1/2 revolution (a cycle on this game is a 1/2 revolution). On close examination, the reel is stopping ever so slightly past the point it should where the switch armature should be lying right in the bottom of the cut out in the score reel cam disk. It's ever so slightly past this point, so the switch contact armature is starting to rise a little bit. I think this is then incorrectly opening or closing switches which shouldn't be. I'm really not sure how to get the motor to stop in exactly the right place. I suspect I'll have to fiddle with the relevant leaf switches on the top. (There is a possibility that the motor that I have may well be a replacement one, and it might not be the correct spec. If the gearing is wrong, it could be running on a fraction longer than it should when the power is cut off). Anyhow, this is one of these awful intermittent faults, and as such could be difficult to sort out........... I've had enough for today, so now time to go play some pinball on a working machine.........
 
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Replay

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Jul 21, 2011
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Reminds me of an issue I had with my 1955 Diamond Lill.

It kept scoring wrongly. I asked various experts/owners in USA and over several months I kept checking/rechecking and still couldn't fix it.

The basic advice was that the issue had to be on the circuit that the schematic pointed to.

At the point that I was going to chuck the game on ebay for 99p, I asked Andy N to visit.

Over the hours he also checked the circuit, took a switch stack apart that everything seemed to point to. I had also taken it apart many times.

4 hours later and still the issue persisted.

Andy agreed with other people I had asked that the issue had to be in score motor switch stack 2B.

He decided to take it apart a second time - as he did a tiny copper fleck dropped out.

Put it back together again and it has worked flawlessly ever since! Don't really understand what was going on except maybe it was interfering with the signal.

Unfortunately I can't read schematics that well but I learnt that issues are always on the circuit, it's just finding them sometimes.

5 months to fix one fault! But finally game plays pretty much like it would have done in 1955.
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Dec 27, 2017
1,004
682
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Leeds, West Yorkshire
Reminds me of an issue I had with my 1955 Diamond Lill.

It kept scoring wrongly. I asked various experts/owners in USA and over several months I kept checking/rechecking and still couldn't fix it.

The basic advice was that the issue had to be on the circuit that the schematic pointed to.

At the point that I was going to chuck the game on ebay for 99p, I asked Andy N to visit.

Over the hours he also checked the circuit, took a switch stack apart that everything seemed to point to. I had also taken it apart many times.

4 hours later and still the issue persisted.

Andy agreed with other people I had asked that the issue had to be in score motor switch stack 2B.

He decided to take it apart a second time - as he did a tiny copper fleck dropped out.

Put it back together again and it has worked flawlessly ever since! Don't really understand what was going on except maybe it was interfering with the signal.

Unfortunately I can't read schematics that well but I learnt that issues are always on the circuit, it's just finding them sometimes.

5 months to fix one fault! But finally game plays pretty much like it would have done in 1955.
wow. that’s mental. ha ha. i’m of the opinion i need to do similar on mine. ie pull off the switch stack that controls the score motor itself . but those things are horrible to mess with especially one with 7 switches on it. aaaarrrrgh!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Jay Walker

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Apr 19, 2013
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An old-time operator I knew told me about a nasty intermittent re-setting problem he'd encountered, caused by a faulty/damaged insulating blade in a motor switch stack
 
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AlanJ

AlanJ

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Dec 27, 2017
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Leeds, West Yorkshire
Not much time today - had to take Clare's mother out for a Mother's Day meal - better today than tomorrow!

Anyhow got a couple of hours in and deecided to tackle what I thought should be an easy one:
Problem with ball eject not working. I was secretly hoping the coil had blown as it's an easy test and easy fix (albeit costs about £10 for a new coil). Anyhow it tested out ok and fired ok with a 24V external power connected up.

So out with the schematic and see there are 4 switches, 2 on the supply side and 2 on the return side of the circuit. So I checked all three relay controlled switches (outhole, reset and game over relays) and one score motor switch that control this – all test out ok - I was sure I was going to find a faulty contact set somewhere. This leaves only one thing, a break in the wiring – so then start tracing the wiring continuity back – turns out to be a ‘jones plug’ in bottom of cab that connects wires from cab to playfield. Tab broken off the jones socket, this was not visible from above as the jones plug on top was obscuring the view.

I try to solder it back on but no joy, I cant get a decent contact even after sanding the edge of the socket, and it’s very hard to reach right in bottom rear of cab, so in the end I just cheat and solder direct to top of jones plug. (It’s not what I’d normally do, but in this case, it’s either this, or similar trailing joining wire. I decide on this as unlikely I’ll want to remove playfield, and, if I ever do, it’s just one wire to desolder.
IMG_9350.JPG
The broken solder lug with wire attached is shown at the top of the picture above.

IMG_9351.JPG
I lift the wire up complete with broken lug and soldered to the wire on the top of the jones plug. Nasty fix.

Tested out ok, with the ball eject working as expected.

I am glad I've sorted this, as now I only have the refurb of the coin SU disk unit to do, and to solve the intermittent problem with the score motor stopping in the right place and then I will have sorted out all of what I call the 'game logic' - i.e. everything that controls the game from start to finish including clocking up credits, starting a game for 1 or more players, playing the game right through to game end. Once that is all working I can move onto the other issues, flippers, jets, lights, rubbers, playfield etc.

I haven't looked yet to see if the number match is working. I will do, but it is not an essential part of the game logic, so I will look at it later on. To test it properly it's a lot easier if all the bulbs are working. Hence leave it until after the bulb fix stage.
 
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